broodwarmaps.net banner

BWMN Time
09/23/2019
21:58
News
new account
list users
Login:
name:
:PW.:
Replays
Map DB
ICCup
Map Access
New map
Edit map
 


Back to "beta" maps.   Show all maps.
Last update for (4)Mystique : 2009, 05, 10 09:05
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
3608 (4)Mystique 128*128Freakling2.3betaground

The map has been rated 30 times and got a total of 70 points
<<>>
Download
Melee

Observer

You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


freakling
I just realized what a nice tileset to work with twilight can be. Possibilities are almost infinite but it is also incredible annoying. This one almost ate me alive, seriously.

It's an Alpha Version Pre-release so far, just wanted to put it out today before MOTM 04.09 closes.
Deco is only rudimentary, obviously, so please spare me pointing out tank holes, unwalkable tiles and other crap like that...
modified by freakling
Excalibur
Freakling wins MOTM.

Edit: isn't no gas nat going to hurt Z? :C
modified by Excalibur
Trooper
EVERFLOW 2!!!!!
testbug
i'm 100% sure you can use a normal ramp at southwest.

and excalibur, zerg can jump the mineral fields and get a free gass expo.

but yeah, it'll be like a map with 4 islands what is suppose to favour protoss, but look at Troy. have you ever seen ad protoss with the 4 islands?
Trooper
OMG i talked to idra today i asked him for a game and he said no :*(
freakling
As I said it is an alpha-version-pre-release. It is not intended to be played just yet :)

The idea is to combine a min only nat with a mineral jumpable 2nd gas nat.

Zerg will likely go three hatch build with second hatch on mineral only and third one on backdoor nat. That should allow pretty standard builds from there on.

Protoss just needs to defend the ramp with cannons and can take a safe second gas, so FEing is different then on a normal map, but very easy at the same time.

Terran can just float a CC over from main, which means very easy feing for terran. But that is hopefully counterballanced by the fact, that terran will have difficulties to defend the gas nat against Mutas and drops, hence one cannot reinforce it with ground troops easily. Thus Valkyrie Mech build seems to be attractive versus Zerg. Maybe MorroW can give a more substantiated opinion.

And Testbug: The ramp at SE works. It is better this way than it could be with any non inverted ramp. Terrain hights and walkabikity are almost the same as a normal ramp, The aberrations are not more distinct that they are for example for inverted ramps on jungle tileset, korean space inverted ramps or the differences between left and right twilight ramps...
modified by freakling
LasTCursE
the progamers must play this map instead of that new league maps
ptar
I would give you the award for the weirdest ramps ;)
ProTosS4EveR
aaahh, this is great freakling
the middle is very interesting, now you have to extend the terrain well :)
i hope there is no pathing bug
Nightmarjoo
Please work on everflow instead :(
I can't see this be balanced/have good gameplay in any shape or form to be honest, and positionally it's not very balanced either. I know you said this is an alpha version, but gee ._.
Crackling
wont comment on balance or gameplay here but map decoration has been taken to a new level :O
freakling
Mystique version 1.00b
======================
change log:
-----------
- added lots of shiny little things...
- ...and some other deco
- fixed basilica ramps and some other altitude bugs
- slightly ajusted mineral only nat

Known issues:
Mineral only placement still is not ideal. Units coming from main ramp sometimes tend to run into workers. But it is all about moving the Mineral lines by about two tiles or something...

Thanks, Crackling, but I would really like if you talked about ballance :)
modified by freakling
Excalibur
I think Freakling is the new Testbug.
sTY_leZerG-eX
I agree very nice map.
XeLious
There is no natural wtf? no choke at natural wtf? that center is really t rigged
modified by XeLious
spinesheath
If there is no natural, then there obviously is no choke at the natural.
Trooper
Still everflow2
Nightmarjoo
it's a little prettier, but I still don't like it at all =/
Nightmarjoo
btw, Crackling won't comment balance or gameplay because it's bad, as I mentioned above.
MorroW
z cant 2hatch muta vs terran, isnt that a problem?
freakling
Then it needs to be 3 hatch muta or 2 ahtch 1 gas...
It's definitely easier than on Nostalgia or Hwarangdo because one needs no extra defense for the gas expo.
Please give me some details or suggestions.
What lineups are imballanced in your opinion and why?
Is this kind of natural layout in general a problem or is just on this map?
I think there are some possibilities to transform this into a standard expo layout pretty easily.
XeLious
spinesheath if there is no natural then the map sucks :)

And the mains are WAY too small
modified by XeLious
nastymarine
this is a very nice map. Should have gas at the nats
Nightmarjoo
Actually xelious as far as I can see the mains seem quite large; I haven't opened the map up at all though.
LasTCursE
omg i open map description and i saw "Player Color : 37" what editor are you using man o.O
Crimson)S(hadow
the nice deco doesn't change the fact there is no gas at nats
freakling
Why do I have to declare the fact that this is an attempt at a gasless nat?!?!
There is an easily available gas Expansion that allows almost normal builds, including fe, for all races.
Just adding gas at the nats would obviously make this a super turtle layout, so that is pretty much the only thing I would not consider doing.

There have been many different attemps at mineral only layouts already and they all were either badly imballanced or considered too limited in strategies because of the gas shortage. I tried to find kind of a compromise. It is very well able that I failed miserably and that this is just imballanced or that the whole layout is just too turtley and thus boring to play or whatever. I could list countless arguments right now, but I won't post them because it would be pointless to try to try to convince you into my supposably wrong opinon.

Instead I would really like to hear your opinion, and not just the what but also the why.

Anyway - with some reshapement of the mains and relocation of the nat there is quite some latitude to turn this into a standard layout, I think. So give me opinios and suggestions because I do definitely not want to just dump this away.

@LasTCursE: You are not still using StarEdit, are you?!?

@XeLious: It seems to me that the problem in my maps is not that my mains are "WAY too small" but that your buildings are WAY too big.
modified by freakling
LasTCursE


modified by LasTCursE
Nightmarjoo
I didn't give any long comment here 1. because I don't like the map and don't find it to be particularly inventive/bold/worth fixing and 2. because I thought the issues in the map were quite obvious.
Since you asked, I'll give it a shot, but odds are high I won't sound very nice since I didn't want to do it in the first place / because I don't like the map and don't think this is worth it.


I find it's usually best to ignore xelious, I've yet to hear him say anything useful.

I don't like the positional differences between the two main-types.

This requiem-style semi-island gas expo only worked in requiem because you had a normal nat. Here, it just results in you having a hard time getting to your gas expo. Mostly, this means that regardless of whether or not you feel you can safely take it without it being harassed/destroyed with you being unable to reinforce/defend it, zerg cannot use his hatchery there to make anything besides drones and air units. This is a major problem -.-

The nat is incredibly wide. Please learn how to make nats :(
Python has a pretty good nat. Destination's nat isn't bad, though it uses bridges making it somewhat different. Umm... I dunno look around ._. The best nats are the ones which feel open but don't have too wide a choke, and which still have a useful ovy spot at the same time.

To me, the map feels quite tight. Looking at the picture, you somehow managed to waste a lot of space somehow, resulting in the actual useable parts of the map, the middle, smaller than normal. However, the expo layout doesn't support a smaller middle, it's quite rich which would make a more open middle perhaps better.
Mostly, I think the mains sucking helps the nats suck, and the nats sucking on top of that makes the mains/nats take up too much space, I dunno.
I'd suggest if possible, removing the corners of the basillica and just making it ramp, ending into the cliff edges (corners of the next level down).

Basically, you're spending so much time/effort/space compensating for the oddities in the map that you're ending up poorly using the space overall.

Your mineral formations suck.


The best way to improve the map imo would be to remake it with better mains ._. From there, everything else should come in hand if you do it right.
Also, I really do think the nats need gas. I think gasless nats are simply bad if everything else is macroish. So you'd need a really radical map for gasless nats to "work" imo, but by that point no one would want to play your map since it'd be too micro-oriented.

But, just adding gas and fixing the nat chokes would help the map too. Oh, and editing places all-over to try and increase the available space.
I think the map can't be perfected without being remade (because editing it to perfect it would take more work than simply remaking it), but you're welcome to give it a shot anyway.
freakling
Thanks, Nightmarjoo,
this honestly sounded much nicer then most of your other posts, by the way.

It is a good analysis and I can altogether agree with everything you said.

Conclusion: I will remake it with a similar, more open middle and a standard natural, min only setup.
Nightmarjoo
Woah don't agree with me, that leaves me with nothing to do :O

Yes I'm an asshole most of the time, you'll just have to get used to it I guess ._.
ProTosS4EveR
i have a suggestion

take red player as an example
i understand that there won't be a gasless nat and maybe you won't like how it is now
if you want, i can make an other version of the map with the setup i made
modified by ProTosS4EveR
LasTCursE
i want :DD make a version :))) but.. look at the setup you made you have a nat far away from the middle and a tight path to it .. if terran puts tanks in his main he can block the whole valley path to the nat..
Nightmarjoo
I don't have an opinion on P4ver's.
ProTosS4EveR
just one question, in legacy of char, do players put tanks in the mains??
LasTCursE
i don't know man.. i'm a noob ..
LasTCursE
you didn't answer me.. witch program do you use to make color "37" (i saw color 56 in some other map) pls tell me man ;]
testbug
LOL yes they do :S
they even put tanks at pythons main xD to deffend the nat
Excalibur
SCMDraft can do number coloring, but you need to type in the colors manually and know what they do. They also sometimes change from patch to patch.
LasTCursE
can you tell me the manually colors and how to make them pls
modified by LasTCursE


  
4
Replays



Upload replay for this map
Add your comment:


Because of heavy spam on the map comments, it is needed to be logged in to post. We are sorry that this has to be done because nothing else stops spam bots
random map
  (4)Black Shadow
Newest updates:
  (6)Duel
  (4)Tear of the Go..
  (2)Embryonic Rift
  (4)Bubbles0p91
  (2)Tres Pass
  (4)Carcass 1.5
  (2)Monkey Land
  (2)Paradise 1.4
  (2)Deride 1.6
  (2)Salvation 1.8
MOTM
  • month 9:
      (2)Neo_Noahs Ark_..
  • MOTW
  • week 2015.36:
      (4)Heartbeat
  • Main Forum
  • BWMN ..(mmmk)
  • P Buf..(Freakling)
  • Ho to..(RonLaforge)
  • Is th..(gnom)
  • Feedback
  • This s..(triller1)
  • Rotati..(triller1)
  • Off Topic
  • Vetera..(JungleTerr)
  • What's..(triller1)
  • Questi..(triller1)
  • Starcraft 2
  • announ..(triller1)
  • STARCR..(triller1)
  • Search Forum
    Articles:
     
  • How to make larvae spawn at the bottom right corner  
  • Worker pathing guide - How to debug and balance resour  
  • An elegant way of dealing with cliff asymmetry
  • Competition:
     
  • Innovative Naturals Competition  
  • Tourney Map Pack Aspirant Suggestions  
  • Maps That Need A Remake