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Last update for (2)Kings of the Hall : 2009, 07, 08 04:21
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
3657 (2)Kings of the Hall 128*128sTY_leZerG-eX3.6finalground

The map has been rated 55 times and got a total of 199 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


sTY_leZerG-eX
This Is beta , Its just an Idea I maybe like It but I want some suggestions.
What should I change and so on(This Is the most "beta" map I have ever done LoL il make It look much better later)

Plz help
Excalibur
No idea about balance but I like it a lot.
sTY_leZerG-eX
Yes I dono wtf with balance but lol
Map number 2# u like of mine

:)
LasTCursE
it reminds me a little bit of a map of mine :) it's cool.. i think this is the first yours map that i like ^^
spinesheath
It would better remind you of Monty Hall, since this is the same map layout with slight changes (that should have great impact on gameplay).
KnightofNi
Monty Hall anyone?

I really like the looks of this map though... the fact that it reminds me of Monty Hall is not a bad thing :D. The assimilators and the mineral walls change the feel of the map completely though... I forsee epic cheese on this map :P.
modified by KnightofNi
sTY_leZerG-eX
Im glad u guys like It :)

I always liked and always will like Monty Hall , It was able to give u great maches but ,the map had a Its disadvantages ,In many situations could become very annoying.

When the map MH came out I wanted 2 play It all the time but my friend hated the map so , I made an ice Monty Hall of my self ,the map was made In my noob days (never actually posted It the name was the same Kings_of_the_Hall) but It had a couple of ideas that he and I liked ,I used a couple here.So me and my friend started playing my MH and It played out great( we where a bit noob at the time tho)

Recently I ran into my old map ,and I read LasTCursE's suggestion In my previews map Fleur-De-Lis "here is one: make a new map"
So I thought why not?

neobowman
Have you tested the assimilators?
coV
Dang man, you make maps like quick.

Anyways, I've always been a fan of Monty Hall, and this looks nice if you considering a little remix version, the only problem to me would be the distance (a little short)
sTY_leZerG-eX
Yes I have tested the assimilators.

I'l see what I can do about the distance

O and Im thinking to make the middle 100 % un-buildable except of course where the min only's are , that might If players choose ,will connect the 3 halls in late game.
The other 2 halls I think they should be buildable what do u guys think ?
:P



modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
JungleTerrain
I don't like this, at least in its current stage :(

in tvp, seems like terran would win before the protoss could use the sides effectively, unless protoss was significantly better skillwise.

Tvz, looks like terran can easily defend and expand while fending off muta harrass, lurks, ling rushes, but i wouldn' know for sure.

These are just my opinions, but obviously i've been inactive for awhile, so listen to Nmjoo for better theorycrafting.
sTY_leZerG-eX
Ok JungleTerrain Im working on a new version , the distances between nats will be larger.BTW talking about TvP It takes 1 rax and 2 depos to block choke behind the nat.

But Z vs T I think this Is going 2 be pretty balanced (Im a Zerg and a Terran player) and the muta harras u can pull off here Is pretty good man, just look at that nat just perfect 2 be a pain In the ass ,(There Is bunker space behind the min line so That Its not Z>T),also main Is a bit harder to harras the min line but Its pretty good man many angles frome where mutas can come.

What do u recommend any way JungleTerrain this Is the time 4 sugestions.
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
Nightmarjoo
Hi knightofni!

Sty_lezerg-ex, you're doing it wrong. It makes absolutely no conceptual sense to have a bridge choke connecting the mains and a troy gate leading to the outside of the map.

The nats are too close to eachother and too far from the mains. The middle is just useless.

If any of the map's components were original, I'd say it was a really interesting map with a lot of potential. ie, the creative aspect of the map and its concept would make the map better in my eyes through its inventiveness. But since it isn't, it's just bad.
Crimson)S(hadow
what if monty hall was remade with troy assims instead of mineral blocks?
Trooper
knightofni wtf man you doing? get back to sc2gg ^^
sTY_leZerG-eX
Ok moved the nats considerable closer to main(So obviously further apart from 1 another )
Decided to stay with the troy gas choke and the bridge(But made bridge smaller In longitude)

Added deco to the middle because I think that might be good now.

The min onlys that connect all 3 halls have 1000 mins each pach , the min block In the main have 72 each pach.

What do u guys think of the expos In the far halls are they ok ? I think there fine but If u guys have any suggestions...

Just waithing 4 u guys to give to ok GO , so I can get the deco going , and finaly the doodads.


P.S.
I enjoy the comments of "XeLious" In your maps "Nightmarjoo"


sTY_leZerG-eX
I can still move the nats even further apart , do u want me 2 ?
coV
Try to make the ramps a little bigger on the corner.
sTY_leZerG-eX
Bigger , but they where inspired in Heatbreak Ridge
and that Is the idea of that expo , can be reached by ground but Is also very drop harassable.

sTY_leZerG-eX
OK map Is now finished !
-The deco Is up , and the doodads.

-A couple of expansions have only 1000 mins per pach.

-Ok It got me thinking If the troy gate gets destroyed , i there Its done defensively 4 example u r going 2 loose and In order 2 save urself u destroy the gate, or offensively u attack ur opponents 1 and destroy It.In both situations u can get fucked up because that cancels 1 of the corridors and u can no longer reach that by round.
So 2 prevent that from happening I added 2 staked temples per base In addition 2 the troy gate , so If any of the previews situations happen ur not totally ruined but 2 temples , unblocking that could be a little of a pain.
This new temple will also bring a couple of strategies like 2 hach sneaky lurkers or maybe some strategies duable In medusa.

What do u think about the temple ?
Good ,bad , stays , go's
Grief_Stricken
you put a lot of work into this!!kinda monty style like spinesheath mentioned before. anyhow,for me too many expos - not to mention 6 gas per player,wow oO; thats a piece of cake expoing on this. at least the expos on 3 & 9 shall go.
sTY_leZerG-eX
O0o expos 9 and 3 have 1000 mins per pach and 2500 gas.

I just want this map 2 have a lot of EPIC macro heavy possibilities.

O and btw I have run In2 many people playing ur maps In obs games 1 vs 1, personally I have played a couple myself and obs some 2.

I was surprised some of the maps look pretty normal but they r really fun I think It was In east , not ICCUP do u usually host games there or Is it some 1 else , that likes ur maps ?

:P
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
MorroW
i wont get into balance but i think the map is cool :D
ProTosS4EveR
great deco improvement
sTY_leZerG-eX
wWwWo0oO0 thanx bros :)
Nightmarjoo
Map is just too linear imo. You use a lot of space on the middle, but the middle is a straight shot from nat to nat. It's fairly wide sure, but players have no reason to use the wider sections of it since the pathing is so linear, and there aren't important expansions to worry about.
sTY_leZerG-eX
How should I fix , and what do u mean important expansions ?
LasTCursE
yo nice deco there o.O
Nightmarjoo
Well, one thing you could do is add pathways leading from the middle to the sides, and/or make the sides wider and the middle a little more narrow.

By "important expanions" I'm making a distinction between expansions crucial either resource-wise, positionally, or strategically (a viable-to-take expansion players will fight over), and your min onlys in the center. Those expos are min only, making them not very valuable resource wise, are hard to defend since they're vulnerable from behind and have no chokes to defend, and they're very far from the players, making it difficult to take them in the first place. Players basically can't (and have no reason to) fight over them. They're pretty useless. The most important thing they do is block the only path from the sides to the middle, but since no one will ever use the min onlys, those paths will never be mined out, and thus essentially don't exist. As such, moving around the map is basically impossible. You're forced to commit to just one side/path while turtling in your free expansions.

Basically, I think the map would be a lot better if you added paths from the sides to the middle section, ideally either enlarging the sides and shrinking the middle, or adding important expansions to the middle (nearer to the players, a min only would work imo if it was much closer to the players).

Um and I still think the troy gate is retardedly placed, I don't see how that will EVER effect gameplay. There's almost no reason for the player to destroy his own gate, and your opponent is never going to get that far by land until the game is already over. If distances were shorter, and if a crucial gas expo wasn't on the other side of it, it could be viable to close your own gate, but not in the current makeup of the map imo.
Nightmarjoo
And even if it's 128x128 I still don't like the wasted space =/
Actually I'm pretty sure you could make this in 96x128, and it would probably be better/more concise conceptually.
sTY_leZerG-eX
Im not sure I agree with 1 thing, the important expos.
Il see what I can do about the middle I have 2 ideas , different than ur suggestions tho:

1)Something similar to what Is done In the middle In Undying Lands except with some high dirt and a bit + sideways.

2)Or If I realy want 2 go crazy do something like Sound Barrier of course different tho.

3)Live It the way It is.
Nightmarjoo
How can you not agree with what I said about important expos? What are you even saying, that the min onlys in the middle of your map are important? I don't understand.
sTY_leZerG-eX

modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
sTY_leZerG-eX
O wait I just had a brain wave , why dont I add In addition to the min onlys( they have 1000 per pach should I lower that 2 what ?)a cuple of neutral buildings that should be fun.????


LOL :)
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
Crimson)S(hadow
holy crap it has changed a lot since i last saw it.
sTY_leZerG-eX
Ok Big Up dates:
I thought about what Nightmarjoo recommended (About the commitment of one of the halls and the problem with the min only blocking)

So I put together a couple of ideas:

-First shrink't the middle , then I added 5 neutral buildings that can be destroyed, and If they r that opens a big gap from middle 2 hall.

-Then there Is the min only expansion , there are 6 paches 4 with 750 mins and 2 with 500 mins.

-Then finally there Is a 2 pylon block with 3 min blocks in the middle ,20 stacked min paches with "0".
I have tested everything asimilators , minbocks , neutral buildings , ling prove everything.

I think map Is good 2 go :)

What do u guys think ??
Helps , sucks , good job , remake It like be4 or what ever ...?
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
Crackling
this map is so great
Nightmarjoo
You really waste a lot of space with all those cliffs =/
sTY_leZerG-eX
LoL Is It possible that the Nightmarjoo Is starting 2 like a little bit my map?
^^

I think those cliffs make the perfect size fore chokes , gives a good formation , but If u say so what specific cliff would u like me 2 change ?

And plz dont say all of em.
Crimson)S(hadow
just make them a stack of 10 or so 0mins? cuz really... who'd make an expo at somewhere with 2 minerals that are 500 each....
sTY_leZerG-eX
No man lol u = confused

The min only has a total of 6 paches( one per side)
4 of those paches have 750 mins and 2 of those 6 total paches have 500(So tho way Is opened faster)

Separate ! 2 pylons , 3 min paches (Per side) each as 20 stacked min paches with 0 , u dont actually mine anything , the worker does not even retreat any mins from It he doesn't even do the journey back to the Nexus , CC or hacherie.
Its + of a time thing , the drone just stays there working and after a while the path gets cleared :)

Try It out ur self !

LOL
sTY_leZerG-eX
Yo guys I have a question , I was playing my map and I found out that my troy gates are rebuildable WTF how do I fix that ??
plz help
sTY_leZerG-eX
Ok nvm I found the solution to the problem.
thnx 4 the help
LOL jus
=(


EDIT:
LOL just when I posted this u helped me thnx Nightmarjoo u where about half a second late.

lol

=)
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
Nightmarjoo
Put unbuildable tiles under them.
Crackling
what are the pylons for`?
LasTCursE
He is putting new ideas out ^^

EDIT: about the pylons i even didn't see any until i opened the map xD it's too bright picture
modified by LasTCursE
sTY_leZerG-eX
Of course I want 2 win Nightmarjoo I have been trying my best for almost the last year, posting mostly 2 map per competition.

Il do my best 2 stop "being a lazy know-it-all and start actively editing the map" with u.

Whenever you are rdy man, just tell me exactly what 2 do.
Starparty
I love this map. remaking it in 96x128 is completelly retarded since the middle path from base to base would be too short and the map would be waaaaaaaaay too tight. Its good as it is and the cliffs are nice to hide dropships and overlords.


modified by Starparty
Trooper
sorta like gaia in the fact that pvz going to be a bitch. Can't fe because you gotta protect min wall, assi choke, and bridge. Unlike gaia where they are close all of these enternces are far away. Zerg going to have huge advantage to start with so much gas like i said vsing zerg going to suck
sTY_leZerG-eX
Yes u can Fe man take another look at the map, a run by is possible but u can always be careful and scout.There r plenty pro maps out there that have an easy third gas and r balanced look them up "http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/"

And I would really take ur word into account if u where a good map maker like Starparty but ur not(Neither u or me)

And I don't know If u remember this comments of urs:

-Trooper
what i ment by invinsible command center, is the dark swarm over the building your basicly safe without needing protection.

and

-Trooper
yeah i dont play zerg and my nexus doesent get dark swarmed all the time.

U can look up this conversation on my map "(4)Gleichschaltung"

U don't even know what dark swarm dues bro, or that spells don't affect buildings.
And u confessed that u don't know about zerg, and in any decent P vs Z mach up between 2 good players (IF it gets 2 late game) zergs use dark swarm.

And scene it is PvsZ we are having this discussion about I think Iv made my point.

So plz man don't give that sort of comments when u don't know what ur saying.
Its ok if in ur level of play or any other u don't like the map I got that already.
Dont take it personal being a noob is not bad, every one has once been a noob.
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
sTY_leZerG-eX
And to get my point across 100% Trooper:

In this map It has been mentioned the maps resemblance to the pro map "Monty Hall"

In my map like in Monty Hall, the expos of 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock, 6 o'clock, 8 o'clock, have 1000 min per mineral pach and 3400 gas.

So not to imbalanced eh?

In addition I think u will be interested to know
the map statistics of Monty Hall as to PvsZ go's:

ZvP: 5-11 (31.3%)

Information from "http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/146_Monty_Hall"

U see its even in favor of Protoss.

And also another comment of yours in the map competition:

-Trooper
Now main thing with your maps is that thier unplayable. like on hall of the kings, you have 3 expos right out of the gate, and that also adds 3 differant places you can be attacked meaning P>T, Z>P, Z>T, its just unplayable for people.

Monty Hall statistics:

PvT: 6-6 (50%)
Information from "http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/146_Monty_Hall"

I think that makes u 100% wrong :P


But take a look at this comment in my map:

-spinesheath
It would better remind you of Monty Hall, since this is the same map layout with slight changes (that should have great impact on gameplay).

This is the twist to the map so neither u or I is 100% sure to which race the map is imbalanced for.

So the only way to know 4 sure Is actually playing the map, of course good players need 2 play it 2 get some good map statistics.

P.S.
Replays are always welcome BTW even if ur not so good :)
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
Trooper
Reason i dident know is because my buildings dont get spelled sept for plagued cannons and all that in a choke in pvz. and i agree that you still are a noob. and like spinesheath said it has great impact. Because if you look at monty its a 100% min block off and yours is not. meaning on yours you can do easly a fast rush where on monty you cant because its blocked off and i dont think it would be worth it to build a hatchery to min out a min block.
sTY_leZerG-eX
Reed again, neither u or me are really good mappers compared to starparty, but as 4 the noob that's u buddy.
Also Id like to ad that he among others like my map.
And ur buildings don't get swarmed lol good try.
Dont lie any +, ur embarrassing yourself.

Listen re reed my comments, because It appears u don't understand them.

As 2 the hatchery yes It would be worth it, but do u actually think that zerg is the only race that can cheese here?
And u can always put a scouting pylon.I repeat scouting here will be key here(Also Is in any map 4 ur information).
Let us not forget that seance there are 3 potential entrances u can get a good scout through 1 of them and know what is going on.
Example use a pylon trick with the probe through the min block and get a nice late scout, or even through the assimilators.

And for the record u have nothing on me any + about the expos.I insist re reading will do u much good.

And i already schooled u once, how many lessons u wanna learn today?

modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
tktkvroom
map is (2) 128x128....

the sides are prolly rarely gunna be used since the path from main to main is super short & nothing blocking it

picture just looks good thats y ppl like it so much
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