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Last update for (4)Asarin 2.1 : 2010, 11, 30 20:37
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
4023 (4)Asarin 2.1 128*128neobowman0.7finalground

The map has been rated 48 times and got a total of 35 points
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Comments:   GMCS (9 elements)


neobowman
Map for Husky's competition.

I've done testing, fixed tank spots and such, though since it was made by me, deco isn't that good. Backdoor to natural is blocked by the natural's mineral line. One patch has 100 minerals to mine out quickly. The khaydarin crystals are the second blockade, and can be taken out by workers. Middle one has to be taken out for hydras to get through. Taking out one side crystal can let lings through. Last blockade are neutral DTs. Both need to be taken out for hydras to get through, one for lings.

I made the natural's choke a bit small to compensate for any possible tricks using the backdoor. The main has 9 minerals (Top right and bottem left have them stacked so horizontal isn't as bad) and the nats have 7, though one has 100 minerals so it's probably more like 6, kinda balancing out the small nat choke, forcing you to expand more and helping Zerg a bit.

The stasis cells are ling tight.

That's about it. Only problem I've found is the pathing issue that may or may not still exist for the top left and bottom right mains when you move units from there to start locations clockwise to them. Isn't too big of a problem if you just rally to the edge of or outside the natural, though I'm planning to fix it when I have time.

Suggestions are welcome.

Edit: Oh, and I'm a bit worried about the main size. Might shrink the third bases a bit to expand the mains.
modified by neobowman
Excalibur
Remove center Xelnaga.

Really awesome map.
neobowman
I would except that I need it for the Found Temple theme thingy in the contest.
sTY_leZerG-eX
Cool map btw I like the middle
Nightmarjoo
I like small aspects of it, but I think you could take the most important concepts of it and use them in a different way to make a better map. No suggestions.

In particular I don't like all the pathing issues/neutrals. I don't really like the 3rd for some reason.

I almost like the center, but it doesn't have nice rotational symmetry (it's basically x, y, x/y symmetry, ugly with the rest of the map being rotational).

Consider adding a power gen to the nats for pvz fe wall-in.

Think the lowground between the 3rds and the nats are a waste of space, should allocate that room to the 3rds while you increase the size of the mains, the 3rds remain open and the mains are enlarged at same time, and you get rid of that silly lowground thing. Three birds, one stone: practically avian-genocide.
sWaGu
i agree with the rotational thing.
i dont think the third should be tankable
neobowman
Editting it right now, and it's rather difficult to relocate the third without affecting the lowground path size. I'll probably leave it for a future change when I have motivation to work on it a lot.

I don't see a use for the power generator since the choke is already so small. A bit harder than most other maps to forge FE, but definitely comparable to maps like destination and python, both of which are standard.
Nightmarjoo
the choke itself might be on the tight side, but the area next to the nexus where you actually put your buildings is not

the main choke not being a ramp and the actual nat choke itself not being wall-able always make nats like this very hard on players who need good walls (pvz, tvp, tvz)
neobowman
I've actually made a few wall-ins for Forge FE right up against the ramp. I can put a cannon behind to defend probe line and it works pretty well. I can put up pics if you want. The only problem is that it leaves the natural slightly cramped.
sTY_leZerG-eX
2 matters:

Did you put unwalkable titles under the Xel naga? I think you should that way u prevent pathing issues.

And I really dont think that the 3rd gas should be tankable form the mains. I think you should move them, I mean u do have the space..

In the + side I really dig the symmetry, the neutral blocks, minblocks, and the ridges those look sexy.

:)
neobowman
Lurks and Goons can reach the third base mineral line too so I didn't think it would be that much of a problem but if you insist, I'll change it in the next version.
Kinosjourney
fucking sweet map :)
neobowman
I redesigned the map. I found that the conceptual features just loaded it up too much so I removed it all. I also added islands at the corners, and made the naturals lowground and tankable. This way, balance is improved and creativity is discouraged, allowing for more standard play every game.

I changed the start locations to be sort of pythonesque to spice it up a bit and changed around with the placement of the third base, as well as removing its gas. Hope you like it.
Aristocrat
Oh god this is more imba than LT, if this picture really is your map:

http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4023.jpg

Zerg players will cry if they spawn on 12, rush distance problems between 12 and 3, and the middle... Let's just say my push will like it very much >:P.

Rush distances vary by up to 20 seconds, and main-nat distance is unstable. I like the layout and concept, but the implementation needs a little revision.
modified by Aristocrat
Aristocrat
EDIT> WTF double post? Sorry!
modified by Aristocrat
Nightmarjoo
That picture IS LT Aristocrat -_-
I'm trying to fix it neobowman, need to find the version of LT in the database that has the image 4023.jpg, it's a problem with panschk's new picture-namer feature, hold on =/

k it's inexplicably working now, whatever
modified by Nightmarjoo
Aristocrat
"That picture IS LT Aristocrat -_-"

Oops, lmao.

Hmm, I like it. Pushes could be interesting, and there's nothing to complain about other than the main-nat choke and the crystals/cocoons (could permanently disable workers on accident, if they behave the way I think they do)
neobowman
It was actually my idea of an april fools joke. I made it a picture of LT on purpose. Had no clue there was a problem like that.

Actual edit notes:

Changed DTs into Zeratuls. Got rid of the lowground as suggested and moved 3rd bases while expanding the mains. I also added doodads to the third base right beside where you place the cc/nexus/hatch to try and improve pathing. Does not block comsat.
modified by neobowman
Nightmarjoo
o =/
Aristocrat
"Changed DTs into Zeratuls."

If anyone ever techs to Dark Archons and isn't massively behind, it's GG for the enemy.
neobowman
Whoops, I didn't think of that XD. I'll change them back.
modified by neobowman
LasTCursE
Make:

Main little bit bigger
Nat bigger
3rd tighter
Nat ramp bigger
and make the middle one high ground and it would definetly be more playable :)

then i change my vote for you ^^
neobowman
T_T.

Yessir. Unless someone else disagrees.
sTY_leZerG-eX
Mains look big enough imo, but I would definetly make nat biger, 3rd tighter and ramp bogger.

Also I would make middle, high ground like LastCurse suggested, but I would add some mineral only's there.

One more thing: I am not a fan (At all) of those north and south facing nat ramps. They are horrible, I would fined another solution.
neobowman
****ING DONE!

Couldn't fit mineral onlies in the centre. Not enough space to make it safe enough to take.

I'm so happy that I made a GIF.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii129/neoalbert/Asarin.gif

Oh and I increased minerals in main by 1, to compensate for the 6 (+ the extra 100 mineral patch) patches in the nat.

Edit: Whoops, forgot to add power generators to nat. Will do soon.
modified by neobowman
Nightmarjoo
That's it? ._.
neobowman
T_T

You have more complaints?
modified by neobowman
sTY_leZerG-eX
Nice, like the update.
But what about my min only suggestion ?
neobowman
If I put them in the center, they're so insecure that no one will ever take them.
LasTCursE
now this is more like it !! :
Nightmarjoo
Make a new map~
neobowman
Once I sort out all the bugs in this one.

I wonder what would happen if I make a joke thread on TL saying that this map is a new proleague map?
modified by neobowman
LasTCursE

modified by LasTCursE
Nightmarjoo
No, stop sorting out bugs, make a new map, please~
JungleTerrain
best advice yet
ProTosS4EveR
they would believe you, it has the same feeling as the promaps
Kinosjourney
Ugly nat and third set-up, but the rest of the map is amazingly well done. Especially the middle.
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