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Last update for (3)Grains of Sand : 2012, 08, 01 23:03
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
4263 (3)Grains of Sand 128*128Freakling and CrystalDrag2.9betaground

The map has been rated 47 times and got a total of 136 points
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Melee

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You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
Comments:   GMCS (3 elements)


Freakling
Time to take some action...
LasTCursE
blue seems to be further away from the other 2 players :
Freakling
What's important in a 3P map is Nat to nat distances. Of course adjustments are needed. Don't complain. This is about participation.
Phobic
If only there was an option for a circular map as well as rectangular.....Would make odd players(3,5,7) so much easier to work with.
LasTCursE
there is in sc 2 lol
Gnom
This post is not displayed due to its content
Freakling
Looks pointless.
modified by Freakling
Testbug
no, LasTCursE is right.
Red main should be moved a little.

gigantic mains.
too long main to nat distance.

in a game, this map will feel bigger than (3)Christmast Gift
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3966
LasTCursE
Reverse el nino main placement concept may be ? http://www.panschk.de/mappage/El%20Nino.jpg
Freakling
"no, LasTCursE is right.
Red main should be moved a little."
Yes, northwards, probably everything also needs to be rotated a bit, but that also depends on the layout of the rest of the map, of course.

"gigantic mains.
too long main to nat distance."
It's just a starting point. Sizes and shapes need major ajustments.


"in a game, this map will feel bigger than (3)Christmast Gift
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3966"
Too early to tell...
LasTCursE
Anyone working on this?
Gnom
Im doing a skilled work for school, im out of this for like half a month.
Freakling
Feel free 2 DIY, LC. I've got more updates to do than I like and I came up with a nice 3p layout I wanna try on my own, so I won't do anything on this one in the near future.
LasTCursE
I'm more for the polishing and beauty parts than building the whole concept of the map :D
Nightmarjoo
I like forked pathing. Like a V shaped block (tar or broken cliff) outside the nat.
K_A
uhhh.... Is anyone going to do something? Or do I have to come up with a central concept again?
LasTCursE
you do that :D
crystaldrag
I might work on later.
freakling
You're my hero crystal (feel free to adapt main and nat postions, terrain levels and types etc. to your needs)
LasTCursE
I'm working on a jungle map of mine so i'm out of this one for a while i'll help too as soon as i finish it :p
crystaldrag
MHmm i am perfecting a jungle map of mine too so i think in one or two days ill post it.
freakling
Nooooooooooooo! NOT ANOTHER JUNGLE MAP... ;)
crystaldrag
There is My contribution! o.o Is it good that someone can work with or should i put back the original one?. I was thinking for the middle to be low ground. But i didnt want to do everything.

The long area for 10 o clock might be longer than the others, i dunno cause the map plays tricks on my eyes, with width bigger than heigth
modified by crystaldrag
LasTCursE
not half bad but i like the shape but i don't like the third it's far too normal we should do something funky with this map :
freakling
It's not a 3rd, it's a minonly... But I don't like how it's already wasting so much space... Mains, nats and chokes still seem pretty uneven.
crystaldrag
Mhm! thats for yall to work with ke ke ke while i go play SC.
freakling
Sorry, I kekeke my own project right now. It's also 3p. And it's not jungle!
crystaldrag
ke ke ke is my laughing. O.o
LasTCursE
It's instalation ? :D
K_A
Two dropable expansions, very close together = bad
The "hole" there is useless because you can attack both expansions from the high ground. I'm not entirely sure, but I think you could hit both command centers without moving tanks.
Phobic
first one sailed smoothly, lets try not to let the second community map die!!!!
LasTCursE
It's cuz most of us are doing another map atm and the bwmn map2 got a bit frozen in progress :D
Razt
Longinus ?
Freakling
Er... BUMP.
sTY_leZerG-eX
Nice!!
A community map, this needs some re-doing in all aspects, odd player maps are really picky.
Phobic
Desert tile-set can prove to be hard to work with, should be a challenge when we get it rolling again.
Freakling
Desert tileset has some limitations, but on trhe other also allows for really great features, both mechanic and deco wise.

And yes, this needs some work. The whole layout and space distribution needs an overhaul. Maybe you can do it, leZerg :D Adapt terrain levels as you want them and add some expos or something.
modified by Freakling
LasTCursE
This post is not displayed due to its content
sTY_leZerG-eX
Im digging the 2nd option (:
But I think the bases distribution should still be different, something less around the lines of a longinus or a Triathlon symmetry and a bit more like Athena or Moon Glaive.
LasTCursE
Triathlon and moon glaive have the same start locals ? but feel free to invert em to make it like athena if you like :)
Freakling
The funny thing is that you can play around with start locations on a 3p map a lot but probably will always end up with some rotated or mirrored version of some very basic standards... One would be like Longinus were both mains and nats are at the sides of the map and the other ones like Rush Hour or Outsider were the nats are towards the center from the mains.

Second one could be nice. Can you add some more of a full expo layout?
modified by Freakling
Gnom
Lol, i completely missed it! I'll take a glance at it tomorrow.
LasTCursE
3 version of main +nat +3 versions when rotated = 6 versions of main layout so now experiment whit ideas for some other parts! :
LasTCursE
What version are you all working on ?
A) The one from the observer and the top picture
B) The one from the melee with the low ground
C) The one with the lowground mains
D) Another one :
LasTCursE
I'm on B) and C) personaly got a new idea for high mains and low map too :
Freakling
I think we should have at least a minonly + 3rd added to the layout before we start to discuss/decide on the terraih levels again.
LasTCursE
Well i personaly think we should decide the terrain level and then put the third (the min only is last if there is a good place somewhere) but that's my opinion


We don't even have the main spots yet :
modified by LasTCursE
Freakling
We don't?
LasTCursE
Well we have theese but we can also make them like Athena or El Nino to have more space
Phobic
bump
Freakling
Oh c'mon... I feel like Melting Pot already turned way too much into a Freakling map. Some one else do something about this, please. I promise, I'll help out with deco and details later.
ArcTimes
I would do something, but i think i'm going to ruin it :(
Maybe i would do something stupid xD
Freakling
stupid and ruining >>> nothing
sTY_leZerG-eX
I would give it a go but.. Map is just so bad :( Positionings, distances, the mains/nats/min only ideas are bad, just noticed map is already on high round, and nats AND min onlys are tankable from same cliff ..
Just bad.. I do want to give it a go, I would go from scratch, maybe keep a thing or 2 but.. dam

Map needs a good base 2 start building a strong pyramid, a good start basically, dont promise anything tho

I am unhappy with how standard map is.. low ground main, low ground nat.. bad, no flavor.. need something + interesting..
Suggestions 4 mains and nats? Be creative I dont know back doors, neutrals, spells, god knows, BRAIN STORM!
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
LasTCursE
Do whatever you want as an ideaaaaaaaaa and post a picture for everyone to comment on it.. if it's good we add to the map it's that simple and with a idea or two from 1,another idea from 2nd,third idea from someone else and we got ourself's a MAP!!!

modified by LasTCursE
Freakling
Last already posted alternatives... Do it from scratch, if you want. If it still turns out terrible we need to play around with yet another idea. So what?
tellur
I have added my idea, it's probably stupid but a very basic idea of what I got on mind...Maybe you can take it as a starting point and think of something better. :)
From an unknown reason the map I'm trying to upload stays still the same on bwmn, so I'll upload it somewhere else.
http://www.freefilehosting.net/3grainsofsandn

Pic:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1299/grainsofsand.jpg

Btw, as stylezerg said:this map needs a lot of balance work in order to be playable. Still a lot of work to do though we can make it guys. :)
modified by tellur
LasTCursE
I like the double ramp idea something like destination or god\'s garden could work well in here! :)) the tar thing tho is pointless in my opinion and just wastes space :

And we need to make the map then figure out the balance issues lolz :P we don't have final main spots xD
modified by LasTCursE
Freakling
Needs moar bump...
Phobic
Superbump!!
K_A
I REFUSE TO WORK ON A 3 PLAYER MAP!!! EVER!!!
Freakling
Lack of ambition?
crystaldrag
Well. I might try to fix this. -__- But i do not like odd player maps... But im out of school so ill have alot of time.
Freakling
If (3) maps are really such a big deal for you make it a (4)...
K_A
I also despise desert terrain....
Freakling
*HEADSHAKE*
crystaldrag
I also despise compound.
Freakling
Couldn't sleep, so I put down this concept... I think the middle structure need to move some tiles north and the outer parts rotated counterclockwise a bit... I guess it's pretty obvious were the expos are intended to be.
I may tweak it tomorrow, add ramps, bridges, minerals and stuff...
I'll take your word that you'll decorate it for me, Crystal (it's without compound ;D)
crystaldrag
:D Mkay!
teal has a nice big gap in his base ... hehe
i can see some freakling ramps in the middle ^^
Freakling
You get the idea :D
LasTCursE
wtf happend to this map lol
Freakling
YEEAAAHH! (Never rushed a map this fast - which to your certain discomfort means that there quite some tweaking left to do like... everywhere...). Anyway... Uploaded as melee version. Happy decoing.
tellur
WOW, that mid is so much awesome :O
I might as well repair some tiles on ramps but maaaan, I have to learn ;[ well let's see in the evening
modified by tellur
LasTCursE
I like the middle the rest not so much ^^

LasTCursE
Made Some deco and terrain adjustments to the mains and naturals :
Freakling
Did you jjust deco it without balancing out sizes and stuff O_o?
crystaldrag
Awesome. :) No one else TOUCH the map. im going to spend. 7 hours decorating mayb? (max) Muahahaha.
Balancing size isnt dont freakling? O_O
Freakling
This post is not displayed due to its content
crystaldrag
Lolol Sry.
The balance of sizes of mains and nats and distances arnt finished?

3 oclock looks smaller than the rest

modified by crystaldrag
crystaldrag
Jea ill do that :) Was plannning to do that anyway.
Phobic
I dislike how open the middle is, especially that giant area outside the bottom left natural before the ramp blends. Maybe throw some tar in there?
modified by Phobic
crystaldrag
Mkay ill throw some tar in as i do deco
Phobic
Crystal, to what extent do you deco maps for people, deco has never been my strong suite....
crystaldrag
Hmm ill Deco probably anything... im running out of concepts for my maps. :O
crystaldrag
Plus i have a hell lot of time on my hands.
sTY_leZerG-eX
lol 86 comments later... do we actually have a map?
sTY_leZerG-eX
Id love 2 give map a go but.. im just sooooOOOO0000 lazy now a days.. haha I dont even give my maps a go
Freakling
I don't know whether you've done any deco already... So I spammed the GMCS with my thoughts on neccessary fine adjustments.
LasTCursE
I still think we should change the third and fourth i don't like em very much ^^

Too close to eachother
Both very easy to defend (and connected even.. it's like a main nat concept where if you get one you get the other one without much effort)
Both having 2 small entrances very close to each other to the middleish part of the map which have nothing in between but open space :
modified by LasTCursE
Freakling
I have an idea (and it's so obvious): Move the hill expos to the ridges, like in Dantes Peak... That moves them significantly away from the low ground expos, allows for a wider choke and allows for better use of space wit more leeway for adjustments and makes it easier to keep tank range distance between the nat and low gorund expo formations.
LasTCursE
Yeah i had the same idea my self but we have to make it so you can't tank the main from there :

I'll try making it work tonight when i get back on the pc :
modified by LasTCursE
Freakling
I can do it myself, but I want some feetback from cystal concerning deco first. If he has a half finished decorated map lying around I would prefer working on that one or implement the changes himself instead of having him redeco everything or have to copy over the deco form one map to the other (which would not match up anyway)...
LasTCursE
if you do it you might call it Freakling's map cuz you done everything on it lol
crystaldrag
Sigh.... Worked on it for about 8 hours.. Didnt even pay attention to what yall were saying...

Nats are not tankable from third...
made 4th ramp larger

ramp at main to nat is wallable 2 depot 1 rax
Forge FE needs forge/gateway/2zeal

Sooo tired...
made it lezerg's bright picture. :)
modified by crystaldrag
Freakling
Deco looks nice, picture is pure eyerape, though.
I rather don't like those random unpassable doodads out in the open.
I also realized that there are hardly any good ovi spots.

You can do it Last, nothing ahgainst it, I definitely think those adjustents are needed. I just wanted you to wait for crystal''s decoed version so he wouldn't have to redo all the deco.
crystaldrag
:) Last You get rid of the unpassable doodads, make ovie spots, do w/e changes. Ill take the map then and then do the deco all over again ^^

If your gonna move the hill expos to the ends then use some of that space for ovie spot :D
modified by crystaldrag
Freakling
High compound to tar blends via some bridge tiles or something could allow for Nat ovi spots... Not sure if they'd look decent, though...

Hmm... Looking at it in the editor some stuff seems rather meh...
Why have you put all those normal high dirt tiles on the ramps, for example?
modified by Freakling
crystaldrag
Ehh there is some of that at ..... the 3rd player... but compound does NOT blend at all with high dirt.. :( Was trying to convert entire 3rd players base to compound.
crystaldrag
Removed the unwalkable stuff. There is still the issue of the ovie spots,... And then moving the hills ?
sTY_leZerg-eX
Wow its looking good, great map!
Oh and BTW yes I got comment # 100!!!
Muahahahahahha!
modified by sTY_leZerg-eX
crystaldrag
XD I got 101?
Lol... You wanna add something LEZERG?
O.o
sTY_leZerG-eX
humm i dont know map is looking fine as is.
But how u guys feeling some swarms?
I would add em ontop of the middle min onlys and maybe also the very middle.. (but not sure)
Freakling
Er... no... no swarms... Definitely...
crystaldrag
So what other issue beside ovie spots?
sTY_leZerG-eX
Yeah thought so, o and the ovi spots I was gona mention..
Look I like the map but it looks like a Freakling work hardcore :( (Ik u gave it a go cd, im just saying it looks that way)
crystaldrag
All i did was deco. :D
So bascially just me and freakling if no one else touches it XD Wouldnt be a community map.
ArcTimes
Can i touch it :3 (ruin it) xD
Just kiddin
The map looks really good.
JungleTerrain
Do you guys have a channel you guys meet in online? I\'m pretty sure you guys play ICCup. It\'d be cool to test some maps out, including this one, sometime.

Im not too good tho, prolly like C- C :O
modified by JungleTerrain
K_A
Hey, you're better than me. Crystal started a thread about this over here ->
sTY_leZerG-eX
Back when I was doing my dual map making team maps with TK we used AIM, its a great program which I recommend, its easy 2 chat and send each other pics or maps, for updates, and that way the map is much more of a duo because of the great communication
JungleTerrain
I was wondering if you guys have seen Nightmarjoo around, or if he retired already?
crystaldrag
Hes stalking us. :D
LasTCursE
Nightmare Joe is always watching :D
JungleTerrain
Lol I still remember the kitty!
LasTCursE
The community maps turn out to be better than some pro league ones ^^
modified by LasTCursE
K_A
Wasn't someone going to move the highground gas expos?
crystaldrag
LastCurse was suppose to do it. :P
And i thought it was the min onlies.
3FFA
How long is this going to take? XD
crystaldrag
Mayb.. 80 more comments. :D
LasTCursE
min onlyes are perfect as it is now
K_A
I still think we should change the third and fourth i don't like em very much ^^

Too close to eachother
Both very easy to defend (and connected even.. it's like a main nat concept where if you get one you get the other one without much effort)
Both having 2 small entrances very close to each other to the middleish part of the map which have nothing in between but open space :
- LasTCursE

I have an idea (and it's so obvious): Move the hill expos to the ridges, like in Dantes Peak... That moves them significantly away from the low ground expos, allows for a wider choke and allows for better use of space wit more leeway for adjustments and makes it easier to keep tank range distance between the nat and low gorund expo formations. - Freakling

Yeah i had the same idea my self but we have to make it so you can't tank the main from there :

I'll try making it work tonight when i get back on the pc :
- LasTCursE

I can do it myself, but I want some feetback from cystal concerning deco first. If he has a half finished decorated map lying around I would prefer working on that one or implement the changes himself instead of having him redeco everything or have to copy over the deco form one map to the other (which would not match up anyway)... - Freakling

if you do it you might call it Freakling's map cuz you done everything on it lol - LastCurse

Sigh.... Worked on it for about 8 hours.. Didnt even pay attention to what yall were saying... - crystaldrag

I think this explains it perfectly.
Kinosjourney
Fuckin' awesome map, great job guys :)
CrystalDrag
Freakling let us finish this!
Freakling
I have a half-finished reworked version of this... But deco needs to be completely redone...
3FFA
Lol@deco needs to be completely re-done. This may never be finished. ;)
asiantraceur
Not that good at map making so dunno if these suggestions will help...
-But instead of having two expos right next to eachother with gas, maybe make one of them gas and the other one mineral only, and instead make the center expansions gas? Again still amateur map maker so not sure if itll help

Also Red's main looks kinda ugly in my opinion :P
3FFA
I don't see what that will add to the map...
asiantraceur
I was thinking that it might be too safe if you expand to one of the third gases, you're able to get a fourth gas pretty easily, but if the fourth gas were in the middle they would be harder to defend?
Nightmarjoo
Blue's main is significantly smaller (and more tankable) than the other two; 3rd and 4th are too close. Indefensible min onlys? Really?
Taranok
One thing I notice is that Blue has a bit easier time defending since its nat choke leads right to the cliff of the min only.
CrystalDrag

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How this .-.
Freakling
Still somewhat unhappy with the 3rd and fourth...
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