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Last update for (4)Feel My Love : 2014, 01, 26 17:50
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
4542 (4)Feel My Love 128*128Jungleterrain1.1betaground

The map has been rated 17 times and got a total of 19 points
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JungleTerrain
So this is my newest map, (4)Feel My Love.

This is actually the first map that I've made on my new laptop. I've been trying to focus on school because this is my first year in college, so I haven't really been making new maps. It's the end of the first semester, and next week is "dead week", so I can afford to work on a simple map.

I wasn't trying to do anything spectacular here, just trying to make a "solid" map. The map is pretty open, but the expo layout is nothing fancy and it has been done before.

As you can see, the map isn't done yet, you can even see the copy/paste stuff in the mains, but you get the idea. I'll be updating this in the next couple of days.
JungleTerrain
Quick features:

-Cliff inside main to protect natural better (mostly for terrans).
-Mineral-only expansions will have 6 patches, each valued at 1000 minerals.

Stuff I'm kinda concerned about:
-You can probably tank the mains pretty bad from the mineral-only cliff.
-Mains have enough space? Some mains are way larger than others?
-Naturals have positional imbalance? Natural chokes are comfortable?
Freakling
I agree that mains will be vulnerable from he minonlies, especially against tanks obviously. The minonlies also semi-cover the nat choke, so you could probabaly get contained pretty hard core, while tanks are crushing half your infrastructure.
Freakling
This post is not displayed due to its content
JungleTerrain
Ok, I implemented some of the ideas you suggested Freakling.

I'll add the remaining ramps/mineral blocks for the islands later.

Done with this semester of school! :D
Freakling
Nice, pretty much what I meant.

But can you move the islands a bit closer to the nat choke, to minimize rotational imbalances, and take the island and ground third out of tank range from each other.
And then rotate the mineral lines, so they face to the outside and are cliffable from right outside the nat chokes (similar to the minonlies in Andromeda). You can also make the geysers cliffable.
I suppose you have seen what I've written about gas positions in the TERU thread? NW and SE locations look like they could be better.
and finally, on an island that close to the main, you need to add a 0-mineral block at the island, to stop terran from CC floating.
modified by Freakling
Freakling
Is the asphalt in the middle supposed to be unbuildable, btw (looks like copy-paste terrain)? I think you could leave that part buildable and just add unbuildale areas of stones around it, or at least outside the nats and island expos.

I like the thirds in (4) maps to be as neutral as possible, and especially in this case, with the additional island expos, I think there is no need for P/T to have a very close-by third, so maybe you can rotate/relocate the ramp(s).
Freakling
An idea how you could improve your middle deco
CrystalDrag
Clap for JungleTerrain! :D
Freakling
Another "random" thought:

The island expos are exactly the kind of structure that can be done well as buildable ... structure...

Have a look at (3)rbn Wrfr Tctxxx for details on how to blend that with water, which then in turn you can easily blend with dirt or high dirt cliffs.
JungleTerrain
I'll try to implement your suggestions. thnx!

Wait a sec, what do you mean about the middle deco? That weird copy/paste thing I was just fooling around, it will not be in the final version.
modified by JungleTerrain
Freakling
I mean the heart :P Just reminded me of K_A's map.
But if you want to get rid of it... Can you alter the map name to something else, too?
modified by Freakling
JungleTerrain
why?
Freakling
"feel my love" is not a proper noun :P
JungleTerrain
if this map for whatever reason enters some tournament or something, you can change the name as you wish.
But my version will be called (4)Feel My Love
Freakling
But then it needs the heart ;)
Freakling
I want to see this finished :D!
JungleTerrain
Yeah... haha. I'm so lazy XD
CrystalDrag
I want to see this finished (^-^)b
JungleTerrain
Ok, I felt bad that you guys were producing so many maps, and I had been doing nothing :O

So here is an update. Hopefully I am closer to finishing than before.

[Update Changes]
================================
-Naturals' decoration changed to mud. I placed a marker for where the player will place their nexus/hatchery/cc, so this helps them planning for their wall. I expect this map to encourage more FE strategies since the main ramp is wider than an average ramp, and the main and nat are the same elevation.
-Some basic decoration in mains and other parts of the map.
-Moved the Naturals at NW and SE down 1 hex and up 1 hex, respectively.
-Moved the islands closer the nats, so they are not tankable (or easily tankable).
-Added mineral block of value 8 on the islands.
================================

Neutral Third Gas:
-8 mineral patches (value 1500)
-1 gas (value 2500)

Islands:
-6 mineral patches (value 1000)
-1 gas (value 2500)

Naturals:
-7 mineral patches (value 1500)
-1 gas (value 5000)

Mains:
-9 mineral patches (value 1500)
-1 gas (value 5000)
JungleTerrain
And I have to make the ramps to the third myself since I haven't seen them made before, so this will take me some time, not too long, I think.

Oh, I forgot to rotate the mineral lines on the islands... haha.

I'll do that later.
modified by JungleTerrain
CrystalDrag
3rd ramps?....
Dont you just take the 60 degree one, then shrink it back?

Very nice updates
Freakling
Make islands structure!!! ;D
JungleTerrain
Thats a lot of work Freakling! :O

@Crystal
They are the "korean" ramps, the ones I used in Gemlong, except that they are for Badlands terrain.
modified by JungleTerrain
Freakling
It's not, just a bit of copy pasting!
CrystalDrag
Hmm... I see...
I havent made a recent badlands map, or else i would have already make one ^^ sry~
Freakling
I think if you moved everything on the perimeter a bit counterclockwise, you...

-...would have more equal (i.e. less oblong) main shapes
-...more room to fit the islands in in a good spot, without restricting the nat choke so much
-...consequently would gain more room for the nats, to fit in better balanced mineral lines.

draft
modified by Freakling

(Sorry, didn't turn out that great... Mains should probably get more room than this.)
modified by Freakling
JungleTerrain
haha, i'll try and see what I can do. nice sketch freakling :)
traceurling
Lol freakling I love your drawings
Taranok
omg i think freakling used symmetry tool for this one
traceurling
Screw making map pics just have freakling draw them
CrystalDrag
Jungle If you finish the outline freakling described i will do the structure+deco :)
JungleTerrain
Yo, relax bro

I'll be working on this, it's just that I'm in school and I'm busy. But don't worry...

I know i'm notorious for not finishing maps.
JungleTerrain
Also, I have a good concept for a possible 2 player map in the future, but I think I'm too busy to start making a new map, at least for now. I'm really trying to get my maps finished...

(4)Ally Me!: is almost finished. Just need to plug up tank holes/etc.
(3)Miss You: has had some updates, but I just have not uploaded the changes to the site.
(4)Over Under: I really want to get this one done, but it's at home, so I won't be working on this for now.
(4)Feel My Love: I got the "korean" badlands ramps finished (hopefully they work) for the 4 neutral third expansions. Now, I am working on the structure islands and then I will rotate everything a bit counterclockwise, as Freakling suggested, since the Mains' shapes were bothering me.

So, anybody wants to try my concept? I can draw it out, then somebody can map it :)
CrystalDrag
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JungleTerrain
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CrystalDrag
This post is not displayed due to its content
JungleTerrain
This post is not displayed due to its content
CrystalDrag
This post is not displayed due to its content
JungleTerrain
This post is not displayed due to its content
CrystalDrag
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JungleTerrain
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CrystalDrag
bump!
Freakling
Is this making any progress?!
Freakling
Do you need help with the tile editing?
JungleTerrain
Ok so this is what I have so far. Most of the big things have been done. Don't worry about the eggs, they are just to guide me in respect of the original shape of certain places.

I have like 2 other map files that I have been using as scratch-trash maps to do all the edits, and I have no mouse, so the tile editing is a pain.

Updates:
-Islands are construct now, their resources will face outward in front of the natural area when I put them in.
-Mains have been expanded, they are more spacious now.
-Naturals redone, moved counterclockwise.
-Thirds moved accordingly, resources now facing towards the closest nat (tankability from the lowground will probably have to be checked).
-Overall decoration changed a bit, the middle being the most noticeable.
-Important chokes/wall-ins (main chokes/naturals/third gas) still not tested.
-Top and Bottom edge tiles in mains somewhat accounted for :O

k, that's it so far. Still have more to go -__-
JungleTerrain
Yes, I would really appreciate help, but I would like to do the construct islands myself.

How's it looking so far, especially the nats?
modified by JungleTerrain
Freakling
Nats are fine. Maybe you can move the islands a bit closer to them...
What you should do is blend cliff-water-structure, like I did on B&I.
JungleTerrain
The closer I move the islands to the nat, the less space the mains will have.
CrystalDrag
Leave the islands where they are... They look fine right there.
Agreed with freakling's blend. Structure to high dirt just isnt the same as bascilla to high dirt.

one tile choke?leading to a slightly cramped natural..
JungleTerrain
The chokes aren't final. I need more theorycrafting to see what kind of choke would most fit the mains' entrance.

I figured the nats might seem a little awkward... but are they really that tight?

I mean, go on SCMDraft2 and place some nexus/forge/cannon/gateway or some sim city zerg buildings. Then tell me what you think.

hmm actually, maybe I could make the nats "less cramped" by reducing the high ground around the edges of the nat, keeping just enough to protect overlords from sight/range
modified by JungleTerrain
JungleTerrain
I actually didn't want to put water there between the cliff overlooking the natural and the construct island because I wanted to give more importance to the cliff...

but idk, I can change my mind about this. Do the blends look that bad? the tile editing is pretty rough in some spots cuz of the mouse predicament.
Freakling
This post is not displayed due to its content
JungleTerrain
That looks pretty good actually.

Does this blend also work when cliffs and structure are next to each other horizontally?
modified by JungleTerrain
Freakling
Of course, the nice thing about these blends is, that they are pretty adaptable and can be streamlined in many ways, and only the keen eye of the experienced mapper will ever spot how dirty they in deed are ;)

terrain demo

I'll upload it as obs-version for you.
Chef
I think most people can see the straight edge of a square that isn't supposed to be there, but maybe not in a game where they are playing hard. Usually you at least want a gameplay tradeoff when you do something like that though (ie backwards ramps, long ramps etc).

I've been watching this map progress for awhile. You've added a lot of features and I'm not sure where you are going with it. I think even if you are trying to encourage 1base games with the double entrances (pretty hard for Z early game imo), the middle still needs to be big enough for the mid-game army players are capable of amassing these days. The middle would benefit a lot from just removing those high ground parts forming the edges of a diamond and replacing them with something far more subtle, even just a single square. You need a HUGE middle to justify a design like that, and the formation of the mains just doesn't give that to you.

It's an interesting map, but I'm not sure if it's interesting in a good way yet :)
Freakling
Can't have followed development that closely, or you'd have realized that there are no plans for a double entrance...
Chef
I don\'t follow the comments that closely, just see the picture updated. Waddayawant, posters like you don\'t usually make me wanna read em keke especially when half the conversation is missing cause someone goes trigger happy deleting comments.
modified by Chef
CrystalDrag
Those comments were relevant to Nature Reagent. Nothing to do with this map.
JungleTerrain
lol psychotemplarrr, those aren't entrances, they are just me not being able to finish the tile editing and uploading a half-finished map :)
Freakling
Just checking in, to ask how you are doing with this, Jungle?!
CrystalDrag
Just checking in, to ask if you have bought/stolen/found a mouse yet to finish this, Jungle. :P
JungleTerrain
i cant work on this right now, im in midterm season... wait like 2 weeks, ill have spring break...
CrystalDrag
But youll have a mouse by then? :D
JungleTerrain
actually my roommate found a mouse in our apartment. but u guys wouldnt even know how terrible my week has been... 3 midterms and barely any time to study :(
traceurling
I feel for you that's the story of my life every other week when all my teachers decide to make a test on the exct same day D:
JungleTerrain
Well, I've been really busy, but I managed to catch a break and here we go, here are some small changes.

Update:
==========================================
-Gas for Thirds and Islands changed to 3000 each.
-Islands mostly finished (minerals facing middle).
-Islands' mineral patches are set to value 1250.
-Removed some walls around the natural's resources (don't really know if the space at naturals are equal).
-Did some of Freakling's suggested tile editing around the border of the mains (mostly where the structure meets the cliffs).
-Overlord spots for naturals slightly modified.
-1 Mineral block of value 0 at each island.
==========================================

So there are only a couple of things left to unless you guys suggest other stuff:
-Finish tile editing around the structure area.
-Modify and test wall-ins
-Decoration
-Small minor things, etc.
modified by JungleTerrain
Freakling
Great. Especially that you figured out, how to place the minerals against vertical structure cliffs to make them positionally balanced for cliffing units to the horizontal ones.

Maybe you could widen some parts of the middle/reduce some of the structure elements there.
JungleTerrain
Small Update:

==========================================
-Modified the middle a bit, reducing the structure overlord spots, enlarging the middle.
-Ramps for 12 and 6 moved 1 ISOM counterclockwise.
-Natural chokes modified, made a tad smaller.
-Increased distance between naturals and respective counterclockwise third expansion.
-Mineral formations for all naturals and third expansions changed (in a quick effort to try to debug them, but I cannot test them because I currently don't have the game).
-Did some tile editing at the top two mains.
-Changed the pattern for decoration at islands.
==========================================

Will keep working on this.
modified by JungleTerrain
Freakling
Isn't the island deco kind of blocky now?

Don't bother with resource balancing, we can do that for you when the rest is done.

Deco-wise I would connect the asphalt from the islands to the middle, but, some raggedness to it.
For the mains (except SE, which also has asphalt deco) I would move the asphalt edge as close to the island as possible with tile editing.

And, of course, needs to be some unbuildable/rocky ground in front of the nats.
CrystalDrag
Overlord spots may need to be remade if a marine can get vision of one from the other side of the water...
And the island deco looks okay..
JungleTerrain
well the for the overlord spots, i figure it'll be like FS, where you can see the overlord, but you cant really get to it with marines (at least till range comes out), but i cant test this myself.

the deco on the islands, im just trying stuff out.

maaaannn don't be doubting my deco skills...
Freakling
Sorry, I don't doubt our deco skills, it's just that my head produces ideas of its own way too quickly, I cannot help it :/

For the overlord spots - I would just add a wall all the way to the edge of the map behind the nat, especially because having the minerals against the edge already makes them relatively muta-safe.

If you keep the current setup, at least make sure terran cannot build turrets between resources and water edge.
JungleTerrain
Small Update:

==========================================
-Tile editing around the islands is mostly done (just need to clean up some areas).
-Removed almost all space behind mineral lines at all naturals (muta rape! if it's too much I can change this again).
-Played around a little with decoration in some parts.
==========================================

So if you guys think it's fine, I'll be moving on to decoration/unit holes and chokes/wall-ins.
If not, let me know what's up.
modified by JungleTerrain
Freakling
Did you update the picture ?!
CrystalDrag
distances to the thirds is very different i think for 7 and 11 to 9
unless it is meant to be like that.
modified by CrystalDrag
Freakling
I think it's meant to be like that, because there's the cliffable island expo in the other direction. So you have to spread out your forces a bit to defend the island anyways.
modified by Freakling
JungleTerrain
yes its meant to be like that, although they are "neutral" thirds, they arent really neutral...

yes the picture is updated, just refresh the page, it does that sometimes. The newest picture has the tile editing mostly finished around the islands.
CrystalDrag
Just checking, how is the midterms?
Freakling
Some of the tile editing is really unneededly overdone already, and that is before deco is even finished... I really consider clean and easy solutions more elegant. Especially if they are "solutions" to non-existing problems in the first place...
modified by Freakling
traceurling
If relevant, I like "Love and War" as a name :D
CrystalDrag
"As Long As You Love Me"
traceurling
We could be starving
We could be homeless
We could be broke
As long as your love meeee~~~
CrystalDrag
Chu~♥
Freakling
Are we gathering ideas for a map description now O_o?
Here are mine:

This is not a rape threat (definitely should make that clear)

Love me!
LOVE me!!
Love ME!!!

Seriously though, what's this doing by now?
traceurling
Oh well I though Crystal was making a Justin Bieber reference xP
And all the names are getting truncated is this to make a point to Fry about importance of (n)
modified by traceurling
crystaldrag
who's Justin bieber?
still needs good name
traceurling
Crystal you live in America you have to be trolling he's this pop singer that half the people hate and the other half love
"Love and War" is good :D
Freakling
"And all the names are getting truncated is this to make a point to Fry about importance of (n)"
q.e.d. :P

Not only Americans troll that Justin Bieber guy...
Freakling
Jungle, have you made any progress with this?
Can you finish this within, say, about one week, or do you need help?
crystaldrag
Bump.
CardinalAllin
edit
modified by CardinalAllin
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