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Last update for (4) Bird Nest 1.01 : 2013, 04, 16 17:42
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
4620 (4) Bird Nest 1.01 128*128traceurling0.1betaground

The map has been rated 47 times and got a total of 5 points
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Observer

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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


traceurling
Fuck this map was a bit sloppier than I had wanted but I've been rushing to try to get this done before the due date..I got one more map to make, based on Lucid's Dream which I'm gonna blitz and hope I can get done in time so I can decide between that map and this map to submit...
So comment's suggestions? Please keep in mind I have 3 days left D:
I was trying to focus this map around the importace of the center...a bit worried about Terran tanks x(

Note, I need help with OBs versions D:
Fml I don't think I can finish the other map in time
Might just have to go with this one (unless you guys think shrieking peaks is better?)
modified by traceurling
Freakling
I like this much better than Shrieking.

There's one dominiating problem here though: Proportions do not fit.

-Mains are too small
- Nats are probably too small and chokes are too short and therefore too open with too little building space for defenses

what I would do:
- Overall shrink down the middle wherever you need more room
- Move the nats a bit more towards the 3/9 thirds, make the nat choke longer
- Mover the 1/7/8/11 3rds closer together, and get rif of the bridge connecting them, to gain more room for the mains

I would also consider making all the low ground strips in the centre wider, because now some of them seem so narrow that their being there would probably matter very little in an actual engagement.
CardinalAllin
Wow, which Korean did you hold at gun point and force to make this? Nice work!

(cant download though)
modified by CardinalAllin
NegativeZero
Jungle looks so much better than twilight... lol I'm thinking, is there enough time for a quick Overwatch retexture?
modified by NegativeZero
Freakling
No! Twilight is great. Don't you dare change it!

Yes, DL link is broken.
CrystalDrag
^^^^
^^^ -.-
^^ no
^ yes

I can help you touch up on the decoration once your done with the overall fixing if you want.
modified by CrystalDrag
traceurling
Fuck 3 days...speed mapping gogogo I'll try to chronoboost this if I can't finish in time I'll just submit revision after the deadline...
Okay I think the DL Link works...working on update right now... :\ stupid time constraints awesomness can't be rushed
Mains are ~ 25x25 tiles...
modified by traceurling
Freakling
Take space distribution on Grand Line as a blueprint for what you should aim for:

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/387_Grand%20Line%20SE.jpg

or Voidrim, which fits your expos layout better:

http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4590.jpg
modified by Freakling
CrystalDrag
Orange Slice!
traceurling
Im worried about vertical rush distance being too little tho...
Freakling
Longer nat chokes will help that too; at least they cannot make distances any shorter...
Think about it: If there's more rock in the way to move around...
NegativeZero
That's definitely how Ground Zero solved the problem, even though it did it in what could be the ugliest way possible lol.
modified by NegativeZero
traceurling
Does having an apostrophe ' in the name break the DL Link?
Also still trying to figure out this observer map thing >.<
modified by traceurling
NegativeZero
Just open an existing obs map and copy the triggers exactly.

Edit: Yes, there can't be an apostrophe in the DL link.
modified by NegativeZero
CardinalAllin
I still cant download this. I think apostrophes do break it. Id do it for you otherwise.
If you wanna do it yourself:
1. Save the file before messing about with triggers, just incase.

2. You can copy and paste triggers like NegativeZero says using 'Trigger Editor', or you can do it manually using the 'classic map triggers'.

3. Doing it manually is best in my opinion.

4. Click 'Map description' and set players and observers to human. Set observers to terran/zerg/protoss. Set players to user select.

5. Click 'Forces' and put players in force 1, observers in force 2. Check only the 'randomize start location' in force 1. Check 'allied' and 'share vision' in force 2.

6. Open the 'Classic Map Triggers'. Modify the 3 default triggers to be for 'Force 1' and not 'all players'.

7. New trigger, Force 2.
Condition=Always
Action=Run AI script-->Turn on Shared Vision for Player 1.
Add action-->Run AI script-->Turn on Shared Vision for Player 2.
repeat for each player (4 times in this case as its a 4 Player map)

8. If you want to add a text message to the start of the game:
New trigger-->All players
Condition=Elapsed time is atleast 10 seconds
Action=Display text message

To see an example, I just made the Overwatch obs version so you can check that out if you want. Play around, its fun.
CardinalAllin
Add a start location for each observer too ;)
Freakling
Apostrophes mess up the download...
It's a HTML thing I guess, it probably thinks the string ends there and therefor cannot find the file...

If you want to preserve the Apostrophe for your iCCup submission, you can add a zip folder to my hosting folder on MediaFire:
http://www.mediafire.com/filedrop/filedrop_hosted.php?drop=9e15f325fdf9dbc2a1c3d2a304d72d68c9549d4a436f928b5af40016d1ccdac6


For trigger editing, I copy them in the text editor, change sounds (using classic trigedit and the sounds tab from the map settings) and strings (using the string editor tab from the map settings), other changes you can also make in the text editor. It's quicker if you know the syntax, but you should compile regularly or you risk losing your changes if you cannot find and fix and error.

Also it's best to have all players/forces on "randomize start locations", or you may up with a setting that only randomizes player colours, but not the actual spawn locations.
traceurling
Just gonna call it Bird Nest...
Freakling
Please remove the space behind the "(4)".

Do you need an Observer version? iCCup asked for it specifically. Or are you updating first?
CardinalAllin
Double check your mineral lines.
The bottom left natural only has 6, the others have 7.
While you're at it, click 'Scenario' then 'Randomize Minerals' a few times, then have a look at each mineral line and check it looks good.

(also what I do is put the version number in the map description. bwmn asks that you save the file without the version number in the name, so that the new version overwrites the old one which saves space. Its a real hassle but its fair enough)

Make the mains bigger!
You can improve this situation in a very quick way; eat into the clutter that separates the main and third.
Thats just a few simple clicks of highground. I really really recommend doing this.


The naturals need tweaking too.
-They are cramped (need space for turrets, and troops etc)
-The entrance width is different (top nats are 7 tiles, bottom nats are 6).

You can fix this in time for the competition its fine. Just keep it simple.

If your sick of map editing right now or dont have time, I can play around with it for you, no problem.

-if you have time make the ramps face the other direction.


Its only because I like this map so much, I wanna see its full potential.
modified by CardinalAllin
traceurling
Haha thanks I'm working on it rn but at a pretty slow pace :\ shrinking the center first do I have more room to work with...ugh those ramps take forever...
It'd be nice if one of you guys could do the observer version for me, this update might take a while...
modified by traceurling
CardinalAllin
Noo, stop. You dont need to do all that traceurling!
I believe you have enough space to play with already!
Freakling
Don't start with the most flexible space, which is the centre, especially when requires a lot of manual tile editing.

You should start with the more restrictive parts:
Extend the mains and nat chokes until they have enough room, reposition the N and S thirds accordingly (removing the bridge)
And I agree, you should move or rotate the man ramps. Looks like units would roll down there and immediately smash into the map border, right now :P

After that you can redo the middle, where it is needed.
traceurling
Is this natural/main okay?
http://i.imgur.com/hfvDjeC.png
NegativeZero
How wide is that choke? Can't really tell but it looks slightly wider than normal. Also you can still easily expand the mains slightly towards the 3rds, just cut into the cliffs a little.
traceurling
It's either 7/8 tiles tall...
Also the main is 26x24 or something...
Also why should I take the bridges out?
NegativeZero
Standard vertical nat choke is 7 tiles (some might even be 6) - 8 is probably too big since a forge + gate wall will leave 3 tiles still open. 7 is good so T can wall with a rax + 2 depots.

The original idea behind removing the bridges was to be able to move the 3rds closer together so you could expand the mains. Personally I'd first try to expand the mains without moving the 3rds and see if that's good enough, then move the 3rds only if necessary. But removing the bridges anyway might be a good idea so those bases aren't so close together.
Freakling
What Negative said.
And for nat chokes, I would do something like on Ground Zero, Grand Line or Voidrim.
traceurling
Didn't update the pic, but NegativeZero was kind enough to do a quick fix on naturals and mains, as well as make an observer version :D
Thanks!
Also should I change the angle of the the plateaus to 45 degrees as opposed to the 30 degrees it's at right now? I think it'll be prettier...
modified by traceurling
NegativeZero
I think the current 30 degrees works better since it causes the valley between high grounds to line up with the natural entrance, kind of like on Wind and Cloud.
CardinalAllin
Beautiful. Now just
-randomize the minerals, double check they look random
-change a couple of tiles on the big north west hill (one is unwalkable, and a few grass ones make a straight edge).
-send it to the tournament already!

I havent checked the map ingame for pathing, vision and stuff, but I really like it so far.

Definately dont take out the bridges, and dont change the angle of the hills either!

What I would certainly do in the future (when you have time) is this:
The naturals need to be more protected from siege tanks.
So, there are 4 big hills and 4 smalls ones right?
Cut into the 4 small hills and make a bulb of high ground connected to the naturals.
This way there is no spot for tanks to cliff the natural from the foot of the small hills.
It also improves the map in other ways:
-allows overlords to scout troop movement better
-increases vertical nat to nat distance.

Do this as soon as you can (for the tourny) but dont stress about it if you dont have time right now. Just do it next week or whatever.
modified by CardinalAllin
Freakling
Mains are big enough now, but the 3rd's geyser is in tank range from the main:
Main 3rd

You can put doodads on the main edge, but I'd just switch the positions of minerals and geyser at the 3rds.

I still think you should get rid of those bridges. I know, you probably like them, but they just make those two expos too close together by ground, and may even turn out to be an abusable pushing route for T.

As for the nats, they are still too open, here's what I'd do:
nat
Freakling
And use the doodad fix gas position from my guide (and its mirror) for the side 3rds and nats. It really helps gas balance.

And I would make the ramps to the middle expo simple and straight, they look weird now.
NegativeZero
Why does it matter that the 3rd gas can be sieged from the main? If you have tanks in your own main shooting your 3rd I think you have bigger problems to worry about...
Freakling
Only if you take that 3rd yourself (which admittedly is rather likely though :P)

But it's entirely possible that a T takes another main, while a Zerg takes the 3rd next to it.

I just like expos to be clean and separated from each other.
modified by Freakling
traceurling
Okay will fix tank able thirds,
Nuuuu my high ground bridge pretties D: would blocking he bridge with a neutral temple work? Meh I guess I can just use the bridges in a different map
How can I fix the middle ramps? Do you mean just like horizontal/vertical ramps instead of diamond shaped?
Freakling
Yes, exactly (to the last question).

I guess you could put something very tough, like Xel-Nagas, on those bridges, but that would effectively be like removing them.
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