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Last update for (2)Vile Underground : 2013, 09, 09 00:17
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
4677 (2)Vile Underground 128*96Veezal0.1betaground

The map has been rated 44 times and got a total of 5 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Veezal
Well for some reason while making the map my x/y mirror stopped working, so halfway through the creation of it I had to do it by hand and try to mirror it by eye. I know that it is visibly off but this is more to show off the idea rather than the actual map. Once I am able to balance out the sides so that the match each other and the base sizes and expo's are the same then I will add deco to it, but till now I don't want to add something that will just eventually get deleted. unfortunately I think I can re mirror it by hand but it will just take hours... any easier way? Tell me what you think about the general idea i guess because i know that most everything else is messed up because of the mirror gone wrong.
Veezal
I edited the symmetry and added some decorations to it, tell me what you guys think ;p
NegativeZero
Where will zerg take their 3rd gas?
Veezal
Either the 1 or 7 o'clock i'd imagine
NegativeZero
The choke isn't narrow enough to effectively defend with lurkers.
NegativeZero
Here's a quick fix you could do - basically just push the corner bases back to make room for another choke in front.
Veezal
Oh, now I see where you are coming from. I thought you were talking about the nat chokes and I was like well yeah they're a little long but that's the point, but now I can see that
NegativeZero
Good thing you mentioned that actually - now that I look at them, the nat chokes are also too wide. Standard width for a vertical nat choke is 8 tiles, these are about 12.

On an unrelated note, when it comes to gas geysers, symmetry is generally more important than equal positioning outside the main. Read Freakling's article linked on the right if you're really concerned with evening out the mining rates at different positions as much as possible.
Veezal
Yeah i'd have to take away from the choke from outside of the main, the main is already large but not like overly large.
Veezal
Just a Little bit of an update.
CHANGES:
~ Made the mains smaller
~ Made the corner expo's have a choke and moved back
~ Made the middle more open
~ Changed the natural expansion
~ Moved the 10 and 4 O'clock bases back more
~ Moved the large ramp back more and to the side
~ Made the large ramp a little larger
~ Moved the 3 and 9 O'clock bases
CardinalAllin
You left neutral turrets at the south nat. Still really wide entrance too but I think you specifically want that.
Veezal
Well I feel like its too small if i leave it at 8 wide D; ughaw. I can reduce it easily though, any ideas on the middle? Of, what to do with it.
modified by Veezal
CardinalAllin
Personally I would put clutter behind the high ground min only so they cant be tanked from the low ground.

Regarding the nat width, nah 8 tiles is definately not too small.

The middle is good, just put some 4 tile square doodads to break up movement a bit so its not an ice rink (only 4 or 5). Th middle needs to remain wide open though because this is a terran map enough as it is. You cant change that though, its like Destination, its inherently a turtle style map.
Veezal
Edited, Thoughts?
NegativeZero
I actually liked the tankable min onlies, lol. No idea how well it would be balanced, but I thought it was an interesting feature that made the map just a little less standard. Anyway, they apparently worked well enough on Spinel Valley for it to get into ICCup...
modified by NegativeZero
Freakling
Tankable Cliffable uphill minonlies are great. Remember Byzantium?

The trick is to have a ramp nearby, so you can easily flank the tanks any units attacking uphill and a terran can not just camp outside and shell your workers out of existence.

I like this layout, reminds me a bit of something I am working on currently, although it's a totally different concept.
modified by Freakling
CardinalAllin
Nice. Note that tanks shoot 12 tiles though so the min onlies are still tankable.

There are a couple of doodads to delete. One in the bottom left base, on the cliff. And one next to the north min only on the clutter cliff.

Ill talk about TvP, just saying things as they come into my head.
Vult harass is very strong vs protoss on this map, forcing them to be more defensive and even expand later cus the threat is so high.
Terran can hold 5 base nearly as easily as they hold 3. (rectangular shape of map plus the layout)
Protoss cannot take a 6th.
Protoss cant make gates at a 2nd location. (Most 2 player maps)

High ground nat, low main, favours Terran on this map. If in the late game Terran was able to break the P's nat, Protoss cant psi storm defensively from high ground etc. He also starts losing his buildings cus Terran has easy vision, which is especially painful as he cant make gates anywhere else. Terran pins Protoss into his main and then kills the expos with 3 tanks attacking each one.

Basically if you dont kill the 2-1 timing attack efficiently, you will probably die, as in the map is non conducive to 'comebacks' when things dont go perfectly to plan. Its more of a 'do one clean timing attack' type of map.

This is totally fine though, all styles are needed and develop the game so its all good!

I like the map alot, its fun. Im quite randomly targeting this one as an instrument to highlight some stuff.
CrystalDrag
btw, where did you get those awful looking ramps? :)
NegativeZero
looks like these
CardinalAllin
In the editor the ramps look really good, havent seen ingame though.
Veezal
I think this might be the last update on this one as I am seeing it as done, unless anyone else see's any major issues at hand on it?

"High ground nat, low main, favours Terran on this map. If in the late game Terran was able to break the P's nat, Protoss cant psi storm defensively from high ground etc. He also starts losing his buildings cus Terran has easy vision, which is especially painful as he cant make gates anywhere else. Terran pins Protoss into his main and then kills the expos with 3 tanks attacking each one."

- If you're in that position where they take out your nat and you have to defend your main only when they have multiple bases, aren't you most likely going to lose anyways?
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