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Last update for (8)Joint Venture : 2017, 06, 06 01:43
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
4707 (8)Joint Venture 128*128Freakling0.8betaground

The map has been rated 36 times and got a total of 30 points
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Melee

Observer

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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Freakling
Download Observer version for current playable version.

If you only want to use the triggers, I have published them here with additional comments for your convenience:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YtSaK28sTRg1vFXQ-HahlHsQkRXdxvpcT1thorxYSgk/edit?usp=sharing


Hey Crystal, want wo workj on this? Just made this because you are out of concepts and I know you are good with space deco. I tried to make as clear as possible where stuff needs to be put. You should be able to work out the rest yourself, if you pick it up.

Name is just a placeholder, of course, I haven\'t come up with anything original yet...

Ideally I want to trigger this so starting locations for each team are randomized (but allies still share a main). Not sure how to best solve that problem though... I guess the best solution would be to delay game start until everyting is set up properly (so the gamestart will be delayed for ~5s after map is loaded). Also helps players to prepare for worker split.
Dealing with Creep will be a problem, I guess SLs will actually need to be relocated onto some unbuildable ground in the middle...
modified by Freakling
CrystalDrag
Is this a 2v2, or a 2v2v2v2?
Depending, doing triggers will differ.

Should I change any of the main outer shape for variety?
It is currently 128x126

I have some some nice ideas of the deco :)
Freakling
2v2... Or maybe I will make different versions for different game modes...

You will probably have to change shapes to fit all the ramps in. to balance chokes, and to maintain tank distances... But a strict symmetry is obviously part of the concept, so mixing it up too much is probably not that great.
It is gonna be resized to 128, obviously, once it is done.

Go ahead :P
modified by Freakling
CrystalDrag
.... Is this an Island map?
Freakling
no
CrystalDrag
Then if you place the ramps, then ill do it.. :P
Freakling
You lazy bastard ;)
CrystalDrag
;)
Freakling
Here you are, there are your ramps.
CrystalDrag
Darn.
Nice middle.

Banning myself temporarily for a week.
modified by CrystalDrag
Freakling
Deco almost done.

And it's playable.

With triggers and all (randomized team spawn... Needed 211 lines of triggers to do it. And some of them still do not work correctly, as it seems, but I haven't been able to find the errors yet.
CardinalAllin
Awesome work!
Freakling
Only that it doesn't seem to work :(
Freakling
Problem (aside from bugged triggers [problem seems to lie in Force 4 spawn allocation triggers allocating to the same spawns as Force 3 triggers, which results in a double worker spawn without buildings (unless same race...)]) is stack bug when removing stacked buildings. Maybe destroying them instead works? Need to try. Otherwise I need to figure reaarange things... Which could make the initiation phase longer (problem is either larva spawns or creep disappearence taking time).
Freakling
Killing or removing doesn't make a difference as far as the stack bug is concerned. So I'll keep removing them to avoid having the rubble around...

Waiting for creep to disappear before spawning Nexus/CC is not reall an option, worst case scenario is it takes more than a minute to get rid of it all, which is longer than 3 larvae need to spawn (42 sec.). Creating a hatchery via trigger also automatically creates inital creep and the first larva. So that's 42 game seconds until there's 3 larvae and a proper melee setup can be created for the game to start... But I could just initialize the map via standard user selectable options then, which would cut at least that corner...

By the way, what is it with those spawn/building time numbers? They are seriously confusing.
SCMDraft lists worker building times as 300. What's that? Frames or something?
And liquipedia lists larva resapwn time as 14, but it's 21, same as actual worker building time (which liquipedia lists as 20). Every one who has ever plaed Zerg knows that larvae respawn takes just as long as building a drone... I guess they calculated 42/3=14? Which ignores that there's an inital larva, which also needs its own respawn time. Can any one still follow me? Probably not. I'll end this monologue now....
Freakling
I just realized that, because I randomize spawns manually anyway, I can go with actual team colours:

Team Red: Red and Purple
Team Green: Green and Teal
Team Blue: Blue and Dark Aqua
Team Orange: Orange and Tan
CardinalAllin
Im not sure if this post is more of a chore to answer than it is helpful (if so dont bother) but here goes nothing;

I think you made a typo for player 4's second trigger. You've put create 4 scv rather than center view.

Why are you using a shuttle with unload to choose the race? Why not just let players choose race normally and then detect what race they are with a location placed over each 'start location' coupled with a 'player brings cc/nexus/hatchery to location' trigger.
Seems like an unnecessary extra step at first glance.

Once you have determined where to spawn the players and what race they are, why not just create building (and workers/overlord/larva) at location and give to player?

The time thing is possibly related with what game speed is being used. And maybe mixing up realtime seconds with 'game time units' I dunno.

If you use hyper triggers, starcraft will check triggers 12 times a second on fastest, rather than the usual once every 2 seconds.
Freakling
The problem is that any starting location with a Zerg spaawning will automatically have creep on it, which will prevent the creation of any other buildings in that spot until it has receded. So I need to put spawns somewhere else and take care that as little creep as possible is created (that's what the pylom walls are for).
And just creating Larvae does not work, because they won't be bound to a hatchery. And moving a Hatchery around will unbind any larvay it has (moving the larvae, however, won't, they will crawl back to their hatchery immediatelly, it looks pretty hilarious). So there's no way around the 42 gs (+possibly some gs for spawn randomization rerolls) to initialize the game. I am just trying to get as mucgh stuff as possible done in that time frame (like initializing observers).

You're right, that seems to be a (most weird and utterly inexplicable) typo... However, there must be more bugs, too, I think... But I need to go through all the triggers and chage them or clean them up, anyway...

And yes, I am gonna use User Selectable intiation now.
I used the Shuttle before because it also allowed to easily activate observer mode. But I can use CC lift for that, I guess.
Freakling
I think I found my error... I did not consequently initialize Team 2 the way I originally intended to, but then set teams 3/4 up as if I had... I think all I need is four more case distinctions, and I should be good, as far as that goes. Maybe I tried to cut another corner too much there, too.
modified by Freakling
Freakling
I uploaded a test version (with AI slots) with rewriten triggers as observer version. It's still kinky. I know I need to change the vision stuff, because vision scripts are too slow to be feasible, and probably add at least another set of triggers to use P11 buildings in the initialization process...
But first I need to figure out, why P1 worker spawns are buggy...
modified by Freakling
CardinalAllin
Yeah I meant that you put the 'spawn location unit marker thing' in the middle of the map (or somewhere far enough from the mains) and detect the race there.
Then you have 'locations' which are currently labelled 1a 1b 2a 2b etc. Then just create the townhall and workers there.
But as you say, the larvae are the problem. Im just thinking, if a zerg started with only 1 larvae, would he spawn a new one by the time he has mined 50 more minerals, cus if so gameplay wouldnt be affected. This could be a solution?

If you create larvae, they wander off the creep and die? I think that is the case. If they wander around without going off creep for a minute then gameplay wouldnt be affected. Probably too unpredictable.

My initial instict is that I dont think you need to lift cc to activate obs mode or anything, just make normal obs triggers for player 7 and 8. Im probably missing something there though.
CardinalAllin

modified by CardinalAllin
Freakling
Yeah, I think when I ever manage to finish this, I will just upload the triggers as a word document or something (or a google doc)...

Players 7/8 could be an actual team, either because it's a 2v2v2v2, or because people like orange :P
So I need a separate Observer Option. And implementing that is the easiet - observers don\'t need any units of their own.
I could also make a 4v4 version... But first I need to get this to run properly.

And as for the larva problem: Yes, Zerg will definitely notice if they are 2 laevae short all the time. For example, there wouldn't be a larva available in time to build a 7th worker.
modified by Freakling
CardinalAllin
Oh yea ofcourse.
Freakling
Melee download is a fully functional version now!

Observer download is a single player test version that you can play against 3 AI teams (which runs on much simpler random team triggers)
modified by Freakling
Freakling
So, any 3 (or more) people willing to play this? I'd really like to try this out.
CardinalAllin
Id like to try it out.
modified by CardinalAllin
crystaldrag
Maybe i can... Do you still want the decorations of the main base? I can look for it, i know i worked on it somewhat.
Freakling
Need to do some changes first. Maybe we can find a date to test it together sometime next week.
Crimson)S(hadow
still need anyone to test triggers for this? i'd love to help
Excalibur
This is a cool map Freaky. Would like to see you do a larger scale 8p map.
Freakling
@Crimson: There is one bug in the triggers where top right players do not gain vision of each other, I think. This map is also not quite completely deco'ed. Apart from that, feel free to test it. 2v2v2v2 is the intended game mode. So go ahead and test it.

@Excalibur: Maybe some day... Not before some more improvements to ScmDraft, though. Just too much work.
Crimson)S(hadow
would you need 8 players for the triggers to work? or if you have only 4 or 6 people, would it divide and randomize them into teams?
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