nice map dude
but I think the center is too narrow
|Could move the top left high ground expo a bit further into the corner and make the 12 o clock a bit wider.|
Gunna be good.
Keep the middle open too.
If this is Freakling, has the desert 3 player map become this one instead?
|It's me. Who else could it possibly be :P I think I'd rather shrink the 8 o'clock low ground expo than widening the 12.|
No, the desert one is a different concept in many aspects, it only has the separating valleys in common. This one's more similar to (3)Vårens Töväder in basic structure, maybe with a bit of a (3)FS thrown in.
I could just put one of those high ground pods in the very centre instead of the three ones that are now there.
modified by Freakling
|Yeah just one would be good.|
|Reason behind square naturals?|
|I litterally built them around the resources.|
|I reckon this has a good shot at getting in the iccup mappack once its done.|
|If that is a serious statementon behalf of ICCup: Give me a deadline and I'll see what I can do.|
|It was from me only. I havent communicated with them.|
You have another new colour account now lol. Its getting hard to keep track of your portfolio of maps as a result.
|5 & 9 nats have bugged gas... Kinda sucks, no idea how to fix it. I do not want to put the gas elsewhere, and moving the whole nats around isn't exactly an option either... And somehow bugged minerals keep popping up in 2 & 10 mains, I've been moving the SLs around like crazy already, kinda tired of it.|
Otherwise this has pretty much reached a status where you could seriously playtest it, though.
|Ah thats unlucky. Just looking in the editor, shaping up nicely.|
|Mains are okay now...|
|Now with correct wallins...|
|This feels like a real map by now, fully playable and mostly decorated.|
|Sweet. This map is going to be hard to decide exactly how much buildable space to have outside the nats. What are your thoughts on that?|
|Somewhat like FS, I'd say|
|Several months later; Im just looking again and thinking it wouldnt hurt if Red main in particular was a bit bigger. And blue a teeny bit too. You could eat into the min only area for both of these.|
Red main could be slightly more square shaped aswell by changing the left hand side to high ground, rather than what is currently 2 diamonds of clutter.
This would mean that Terran spawning at Red can protect the ramp to the high ground expo easily, while the other spawns cant. But I think its worth it for the better main shape.
Teal main could be made a teeny bit bigger by taking some of the black 'Space' at the bottom.
These pics are only a quick sketch just to get the idea across:
|Very very nice map|
|As for shapes in general, I need to get rid of all the straight lines, I think. Even being space platform, they just do not go well with the general theme and layout of the map.|
Changing red's main as you suggest is a bad idea, for precisely the reason you pointed out: Tanks in the main could easily defend the ramp to the 3rd.
Teal's main is already too big (relatively and absolutely) and needs to be shrunk down a bit, in fact.
|In reality it would be the Terran 4th, not 3rd, and by that stage of the game, its less significant. But if you dont want to its ok, though could still make red main a bit bigger just on the top edge.|
See 4 gmcs.
Im a bit worried about the difficulty of turret placement vs muta in the nats.
Also terran and protoss taking a 3rd base. I might be tempted to put a half gas at the min onlies. There is space and I think it would be good for gameplay.
- doodads/mains/terrain adjustments and stuff: Already working on an update (also widens ramps to the high ground expos on the minonly side)
-reducing wide ramps: bad idea, because it would make the mid ground very defensible and make terran expansion progession way too easy.
I don't think Terran in particular needs any further help on this map, rather to the contrary ; people I suggested this map to so far were more inclined to worrying about T being too strong, in fact.
Terran 3rd vs. 4th: it could well be a Terran's 3rd gas, assuming an expansion progression clockwise on the mid ground, taking the minonly first (which can be nice for a more defensive T with high ground advantage and massive vultures/mines)
adding gas to mineral only: again, too strong defensive position for Terran, especially if you consider how easy it would be to then further expand to / defend 5 expos/gas. Generally, having a very gas rich map does not work too well if the map also favours defensive gameplay, I think.
Turrets in nats: There's a lot of space to place them. Generally I consider turrets actually behind the mineral lines to be bad, actually.
If there is no cliff behind, the mineral line is protected too easily.
If, on the other hand, there is a cliff behind, the turrets only become easily killed because their effective range is limited. Hence players generally don't put turrets actually behind the mineral lines, even on FS where they actually could do so.
|Wider ramp to the high ground expo, thats probably cool.|
This map is actually really problematic from a map maker perspective. Its hard to take a 3rd, but then 4th and 5th come fairly quickly. Also, if a player does manage to take his 3rd, he is already advancing across the map. Add to that its a 3 player map with all the gameplay challenges that inherently brings as well, Im glad its not me having to decide how this map will end up!
The turret placement and add half gas ideas were just passing thoughts that I suddenly added while looking at the picture. I dont think I actually would add a gas (I meant to say 'could be good for gameplay' not 'would' in the first comment). Its fine not to add a half gas, so yeah.
The turrets at the nats, I looked in the editor properly now and yes its pretty fine. I agree its better when turrets are inside the min line, never suggested otherwise.
What I mean is, if mutas commit to taking down a couple of turrets, and manage to pierce a hole, it could be quite hard for terran to patch it up. But that’s just the nature of (relative to some) small naturals that have cliff on 3 sides. Its just a little bit fiddly, a terran player might be wise to learn the nats rather than freestyle. (so not really different from any other map heh). But again, there isn’t really anything to do about it, this is common on 3 player maps anyway.
At the moment, this map would probably be mech TvZ quite often and will play well I reckon.
|Update to version 1.00|
- changed around some shapes for wideness/distances and to get rid of straight lines as much as possible
- all resources debugged
- deco done (feels like I stripped away as much of the superstructure as possible with my fingernails... Thinking about it, that is a pretty accurate description of what I did, actually; looks nicely derelic now.)
modified by Freakling
|Just looking at the picture I would say I could probably move the top right mineral only a wee bit to the left...|
|Idk why but I liked 0.90 ver. better because it was more "clean" now it's too much deco and looks confusing, I mean you filled every tile , pure platform tiles look ok, you don't have too fill every of 'em. |
|It looks fine and actually very readable ingame and gives you a nice contrasted minimap...|
|OMG today I discovered 2 strangest bugs in my life playig on this map:|
1) I made a wall at 6 with 2 rax and depo and M&M can get through but bats can't!
2) At center my stimmed marines jumped up over 9000 speed, they walked super duper fast!
Yeah judging from minimap it looks nice.
|(1)Probably rax left depot right, the standard anti-Zealot wall?|
(2)Stimmed Marines tend to walk super fast...
|(1)Probably but aren't bats exactly same light units as rines, medics? Sry maybe I didn't see much bats in competitive gaming so it was a new thing for me.|
(2)No that was really fast bug, they walked upwards ten times faster and happened like 2 sec. only or so. I remember a youtube video where koreans watching how lurker speedwalked downwards, exactly same! Found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1SFFjn9Cis
modified by outscar
|(1) Firebats actually have a collision box comparable to Zealots, which is as high as marines, but wider. (Just look at it n SCMDraft)|
(2)I think that bug can happen if two units try to walk past each other in opposite directions, but BWs inbuild artificial stupid cannot figure out how to make them walk around each other, which will get them stuck and then bugging out like that.
|Update to version 1.01|
- moved the top right mineral only a bit to the left
- fixed all the mining bugs moving of the mineral only induced, mostly by the rather holistic method of progressively making small changes to cliffs and the like until the more severe and hard to fix bugs disappeared... I feel rather accomplished now.
- fixed a stack&stuck bug on the bottom main ramp
- cleaned up some sloppy deco
|Tile that imitates a doodad at 4 caught me up a little. Some little problems with space/ground transitions that are a bit messy but unnoticeable.|
|Hey Crystal, what's your Sarye...something-update doing?! Need any help?|
"tile that imitates a doodad"
How does a tile even imitate a doodad ? Do you mean a doodad tile? This map has so much manually edited tiles that you need to be a lot more precise in your description than this ;D
"caught me up"
Not sure what you mean by this. Did you have to look for a few minutes to decide whether you like it or not?!
"unnoticably messy space/ground transitions"
"Messy", like "rugged look", which is of course intended.
Or "messy" like "blocky" (which would contradict "unnoticable", though o_O ).
I have just really started to like the stripped away look of low platform wall to space transitions while making this map. It just fitted well with the general theme and aesthetics of this map (and probably with my own little affection to derelict-looking maps ;P )
|Saryesik? Mapping overall was put on hold because of how I screwed myself with tests. Last final is this week though.|
At the entrance to 4, the 2x2 looks like a "natural" doodad but with editing which makes one corner unbuildable(that is for wallin due to the ground cliff southwards being bad)
|Oh, that's what you mean... All the entrances to the low ground expos actually needed some subtle tile editing to endure that proper walling ins possible.|
|Minor update of purely aesthetic nature...|
|This looks so badass right now. Time to get it to iCCup ladder ASAP.|
|Ugh... why can't they remove that 50 map limit on the iccup mappool?? It's 2016 and the server is like from 2007. Can nobody change that?|
|Hey Freakling, so I was playing on this map, and I noticed that when you build a command center (I was playing terran), on the sprites of the unused floor hatch at 8 o clock expansion, you could only select the command center by actually clicking on it, not just drag box selecting it. |
To me it was annoying because I always select my main buildings by drag boxing them. Idk if that makes sense, but it might bother players.
So if u drag box it it selects the unused floor hatch, but if you click on the building itself it will select the building...
|I knew some one would complain at some point...|
Why would you box-select buildings?
See it as as an educational measure to get rid of bad habbits ;D
Seriously, I never experienced that as a real issue in-game during testing. But maybe that is because I do not box-select buildings, and box-selecting larvae is not a problem, as one's own units are always given preference over neutral ones.
|I uploaded an observer version.|
|It's cuz I use the F-keys |
|Update to version 1.03|
- a bit more building space for 10 o'clock main
- more building space on mid ground between mineral only and high ground 3rd
- some deco updates
- and even more of the latter to fix mining bugs
- also relocated resources for 10 o'clock main and low ground third at 4 o'clock a bit ... to fix mining bugs (what else could it possibly be...)
|Good. Its all ready, gunna be some good games on it.|
- finally removed those floor hatches...
- this obs version is the no-fog version for now
- EDIT: Also fixed observer player 8 being improperly set to user selectable
modified by Freakling
|Aww pity, I really liked those base place decorations. |
|Unfortunately they got in the way of players selecting the town hall...|
|I understand what JungleTerrain said but who in 2017 drag box select town hall? After some time you don't even click bases but use hotkeys (if not zerg then use F keys and lick CC or Nexus). I think you should consider removing it only after you hear more complains from pro players, if it's really distracting. |
Alright did some testing - for me it's ok and it's not easy task to select floor hatch. But if you drag box user then you can't select CC even if you drag tiny hole. Still I think it's not big issue.
modified by outscar
|It has become a major complaint in the FightClub thread. Obviously there are quite a few habitual drag-selectors. Accidentally drag-selecting due to mouse-jittering during clicking at high APM rates also seems to be a reason.|
|Fixed a little cosmetic oversight.|
I also uploaded a zip to the observer version slot, containing the melee, obs and no-fog versions of the map.
|Just uploading all the newest observer packs...|
|Update version 1.05|
using the ramps from my brush file now.
|Fixed two potential vortex bugs.|
|Update: Version 1.06|
Some more mining optimizations and other pathfinding related changes.
|Update to version 1.07|
- lots of pathfinding related fixes and optimizations
- added some deco to the centre
|Fixed a mining issue I overlooked in the bottom left low ground expo.|