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Last update for (4)Latin Quarter : 2018, 09, 27 02:25
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
4756 (4)Latin Quarter 128*128CardinalAllin0.5finalground

The map has been rated 30 times and got a total of 15 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


CardinalAllin


10th November 2014
Version 0.1 The Latin Quarter

Version 0.2
-slightly bigger mains (top right and bottom left)


Version 0.3
-added doodads to stop siege tanks hitting workers at top left and bottom right nat.

Version 0.5
-Minerals in mains

Version 0.6
-Rocky ground outside the naturals
-Walling at the bridges
-HT holes behind naturals
-Larvae spawn inside the wall and dont stack at the bottom right natural

Version 0.7
-Ramp bug and minor deco

Version 0.8
-Fixed trapped scv after walling

6th December 2014
Version 0.9
-Changed a few tiles here and there

31st December 2014
Version 1.0
-No changes


modified by CardinalAllin
CrystalDrag
Blue and teal seem smaller... Check to make sure that u arent wasting space with the horizontal water counterclockwise of their natural.

akward shape of 3 and 9 3rd baes :D

no unbuildable terrain anywhere besides bridgeS?
Freakling
Crossover between La Mancha and FS... When am I gonna see a 3 spawn map of yours?

What Crystal said: Try to equalize main shapes/sizes, there is no reason for them to be this different.
I do not think 3/9 are particularly awkward, though, at least compared to 6/12. I guess having the ramp further away from the expo and thus harder to defend (tanks/cannons cannot cover both ramps at once, as on FS) is intentional?

I really like this one. Probably your best so far.
modified by Freakling
CardinalAllin
The teal and blue mains were the same size and shape as La Mancha. Ive made them slightly bigger now though.
CardinalAllin
Ive written a little article about the larvae spawning at bottom right natural:
Click Here

Zerg often wall the natural choke with a hatchery, ZvP in particular.

When forming the natural choke for certain spawns, you may wish to make it so Zerg larvae spawn towards the bottom right corner of the hatchery. This is a minor thing but can allow Zerg units to spawn inside their wall.
I think there are two rules.

1. Buildable tiles: There needs to be 2 buildable tiles vertically below the 3rd column of the hatchery. This accomodates creep, allowing the larvae to not stack. Like so:


2. Walkable dot: The tile below the 2nd column of the hatchery needs to have atleast a dot of walkable in the top right corner. This allows the larvae to spawn inside the wall. Otherwise they will walk through the hatchery to the left hand side and die (depending on surrounding tiles). Like so:


There might be more to it, but thats a starting point at the least. The picture are from my map 'The Latin Quarter'. So if the pictures expire, you can download that map, and look at the bottom right spawn.

CrystalDrag
Not sure in that above picture if the tile is suppose to be there... (left of the bush of wallin indicator)
CardinalAllin
Yeah Ive already changed those 2 tiles just for aesthetics.
Done a few other minor deco things too.

I think Ive fixed a big problem that reared its ugly head in testing.
The bottom left main ramp has a bug.
Tanks were getting stuck after being pushed by sliding workers. The tank would get stuck in the top right corner of the ramp.

Ive changed 2 tiles, and it seems to be fixed. I havent released this version 0.7 quite yet though.
So, be warned. I should probably post on the ramp pallete itself actually.


EDIT: uploaded 0.7 now.
modified by CardinalAllin
Freakling
Sounds like the stack&stuck bug that's also plagueing other maps (left ramp of top 3rd on FS or virtually any ramp at bottom right of Dantes Peak, for example). Problem are any tiles which are unwalkable to any degree (a single subtile suffices) on the bottom right corner on certain map postions (i.e. coordinates). Only possible fixes are to either move the whole ramp to another position and try again (I would recommend this solution) or to replace the tile with some completely walkable one (which inevitably makes the ramp wider than it is supposed to be at that spot).
modified by Freakling
CardinalAllin
Yes similar to the fs + dantes peak bugs. But perhaps it is actually different I dont know.
The bug was easy to reproduce in single player.



The picture shows the new ramp that seems to be working.
I changed two tiles, the two below the tank. The tile on the left was where the units got stuck I think.

I didnt follow this sentence;
"Problem are any tiles which are unwalkable to any degree (a single subtile suffices) on the bottom right corner on certain map postions (i.e. coordinates)."

modified by CardinalAllin
CardinalAllin
Version 0.8 uploaded
Freakling
Can you edit the picture to mark the tile we are speaking about here?

Is there any specific reason why you made the bridges partially buildable?
modified by Freakling
CardinalAllin
Ill try re wording first.
There are 2 tiles directly below the tank.
Out of those 2 tiles, it was the one on the left that was causing the problem I think.
I changed both tiles below the tank though, just to help ensure the bug was caught.

The bridges are easier to wall now for terran.
CardinalAllin
6th December 2014
Version 0.9
-Changed a few tiles here and there
Freakling
Your perfectionism is about to surpass mine :P
CardinalAllin
31st December 2014
Version 1.0
-No changes
Freakling
You should watch the Nation Wars EF vs. France; they played this map in every set, including 2v2 and ace:
http://www.hitbox.tv/video/721584/videos

There's a bugged mineral patch (#2 clockwise) in the bottom left main, by the way.
CardinalAllin
Thanks for the link.

I know about the mineral patch. I tried many formations before v1.0 and I couldnt find a perfect solution.
There were 2 things I was being stubborn about:
1. Had to have an 'reverse bucket' (4 minerals in a 'C' shape facing away from the townhall).

2. Not moving the actual position of the spawn.

I tried many formations. In the end I settled with this shape because if you select the worker, right click near the top of the mineral patch, then right click the patch, it will lock in and mine correctly.

I expect you would have just moved the spawn 1 tile or so, and I would have if the above method didnt work. But yeah Im happy with the current setup.
You can build the spawning pool under the hatch too.

modified by CardinalAllin
Freakling
I do not really see the stringency of either of those two limitations you put upon yourself (I am not even sure what you actually mean by "reverse bucket").
CardinalAllin
I call it a mineral bucket when 4 minerals form a 'C' shape where a pylon prison is particularly effective and can trap many workers.
If the mineral line is horizontal, then it would be a 'u' or 'n' shape.
They also make storm drops and other splash drops much more powerful.
eg neo ground zero has 1 bucket in each of its mains, nats and min onlies.

I call it a reverse bucket when 4 minerals form a 'C' shape that faces away from the townhall. They allow a spire to be built behind the mineral line that is more protected vs ling surrounds.
Freakling
You could also:

- place a skeleton doodad
- move one patch to the backrow
CardinalAllin
Yeah so obviously I had already tried moving it to the back row and yes it works. What I meant by 'I couldnt find a perfect solution' was that when the patch is there on the back row, it is slower to mine than where it currently is.
If I were to do an update to this map, Id be tempted to move it to the back row though. Its just a little bit simpler then.
I dont really like the idea of a skeleton doodad if it can be avoided so that building placements arent affected. Id sooner move the start location 1 tile up and test that if it was required. But yeah thats a good last resort if it were needed.
I didnt want to move the start location just so that the mains are symmetrical, would do so if absolutely needed though.
The reverse bucket is nice to make ZvZ slightly more stable, and anything we can do to help that is a good thing in my opinion. The mineral lines on this map have a 2 tile gap behind them. This means the spire if built behind the min line is not as protected as it could be though, better if only 1 tile gap so enemy lings can only get 2 tile edge worth of surface area on the spire, rather than 4 (and cant escape so easily).
I like having the 2 tile gap behind the main min line though as it makes unit movement back there a bit less fiddly, gives a bit nicer options for trapping a probe between pylons for air stacks, stuff like that. But if I were to make a new map I might be tempted to have just a 1 tile gap.
But anyway, heres the fun stuff:



tl thread
Freakling
You could also clean up your ramps a bit, and maybe make the actual high ground part of the ridges a bit wider (change the transitional unbuildable grass tiles).



Who knows, by the wonderful holistic magic of BW pathfinding, this might even solve your worker bug... or cause all sorts of excitingly insane new ones!
CardinalAllin
Those are Crystals ramps so blame him! lol
Yeah would be nice if they were a bit wider. I knew it at the time but well, my ramp skills are weak.
Honestly Id rather just start new map at this point though. All mappers have many sketches and half finished maps lying about.

Thinking of doing a 4 player badlands map that is similar to FS but has the top left nat rotated in the other direction so it would be closer to 12 o clock than 9 o clock.
Also, on the path to the 3rds, there would be a second bridge to the centre.
Small nats like FS with vertical min lines, and a small air gap into the main behind them. The first bridge out to the centre would be thinner than on FS.
The mid will have a lot of grass with quite a high number of trees and rock pillars.

modified by CardinalAllin
NegativeZero
you could call it "fighting temple"... or maybe "lost spirit"?
CrystalDrag
Now before you go blaming me, you should consider the amount of Badlands maps I have created. :)
I think we should make a 4 player rotational map that has 15 expansions.
modified by CrystalDrag
CardinalAllin

modified by CardinalAllin
triller1
I love the visual of this map and it looks amazingly balanced in theory but the games i've played on it (iccup motw weeks) always end up playing going super weird and stagnate at the 5-8 minute mark for really slow progress. Not sure what to suggest but i don't love playing on it as much as i love looking at it.
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