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Last update for (4)Avalon0 : 2015, 03, 07 18:33
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
4769 (4)Avalon0 128*128Str18-020.7leagueground

The map has been rated 31 times and got a total of 21 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Freakling
Looking closer at this, it's probably not as limiting too mobility as Central Plains or Outlier, due to the additional ramps from the 3rds to the middle. So in close position, I would actually give the edge to terran here in TvZ. Not sure about PvT, because Carriers will be very dominant with all these cliffs, just like on Pathfinder. I do not like how vulnerable to units on the adjacent ice the top and bottom 3rds are, compared to the left/right ones.

All the repetitive clutter terrain patterns make this look a lot less nice than it could...
CardinalAllin
What dont you like about this map outscar?
Freakling
I think the short mat-to-nat distanmces are probably gonna be a major problem. ZvT close position, handling a standard bio aggression into mech build is gonna cause som majout problems, I think (easy and fast aggressive push early on with few good positions to use mutas to delay/whittle down the bio forces, later on easy push&expand down the side paths).
PvZ is probably not gonna be so bad, because the tight ramps are good storm traps.

PvT I predict a lot of 2 base Carriers.
modified by Freakling
Freakling
I don't understand how major leagues are still unable to effort some minimal testing on maps before publishing them...
E Nat has some of the worst mineral gathering I have ever encountered in a map. W 3rd is also badly bugged (bottommost three patches), as well as SW Main (topmost two), N & S 3rds have gas miners respawn behind the minerals and having to go all the way around to return their load... And these are just the worst issues I found during some quick playtesting...
modified by Freakling
outscar
And pathing is also fucked up too because of those stacked temples. And I hate them, I mean one piece is acceptable but 3 temple and 6 mineral fields - c'mon, it's a headache! This map needs to be cured or removed asap.
Freakling
Yeah, when I sent Ultra Ling attack moving accross the map, they got stuck in places where I did not even knew how they even got there...
outscar
"I dare say even the newest version available has major positional balance issues. Koreans just know jack shit about debugging and balancing resources, and SSL simply doesn't have a pool of infinte monkeys hundreds of playtesters any more to straighten out the worst screwups of the mapmakers..."

Was surfing on TL. These are your words and I totally agree with them. Debugging path and resource issues are already job of mapmakers, testing balance is work of players. If they want to keep BW alive and resurrect it after disband of pro scene then they need some type of agent who will look up some foreign maps and contact foreign makers, maybe yours, because all I know yours, Cardinals and others of these guys on bwmn are ten times better that this later stuff. Good old pro mapmakers are gone to SC2 or retired. And we shouldn't forget that this is amateur scene and one good guy Sonic can't handle every aspect. These vigilant testers from pro scene are vanished.
Freakling
Not gonna happen, I presume. Even back in the Kespa days, all that ensured that maps weren't a total mess was mass playtesting by legions of willing korean amateurs, as I understand it, even to iron out the most basic problems (have you ever seen Silver Wing, for example, the original version of FS? Any one with a bit of knowledge could have told them that two of the nats were tankable from the middle and that they better change it before essentially waste playtesting time with issues like this).
outscar
I thought Silver Wing's difference was only name change and it is dated so long than FS - 2008. Now I tested it and it is terran heaven. No wonder why Fish got over 9000 versions of it. You don't really need any nerd junkies to discover them. Just write three-four cheats, make units and test known weaknesses.
It is really good that we see new maps, but how can you immediately run it in a league. These imbalances are breaking pro's dreams.
CardinalAllin
Str18-02 is a much better mapper than me.
(he isnt better than others here though)
Str18-02 List of Maps

I think quite a few of the big names in Korean mapmaking and quite a few of the smaller names (who are very skilled) have not gone to sc2 or retired either. Probably Chinese mappers too.

Just to be sure, this and Demian are for KSL which isnt Sonic. This is run by Yellow, Lee Doo Hee and Shark.

I think (Im not certain by any means) Earthattack was more vigilant with his mineral testing, but perhaps its fair to say [Ragnarok]Valkyrie got a bit complacent with his later maps. It might have been down to time constraints though.
Freakling
As for [Ragnarok]Valkyrie, just pick anything with Peaks or Ridge in the name and forget about the rest...
Rose.of.Dream is a bit bland, for the most part.
Earthattack, Cygnus and Str18-02 have some very nice stuff between them, though.
outscar
I saw a game - KSL ro16 hero vs free. And hero manages to destroy only 1 temple and to get into the toss base. Did they change smth in map or I missed smth? Wasn't it 3 stacked temples? Did they manage to listen our complains and changed it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPS4et95Rk0&x-yt-ts=1422579428&list=PLVww6TCPoa7zCJOkm6B6Uc1TeDgYTi6sg&feature=player_detailpage&x-yt-cl=85114404#t=1848
modified by outscar
Freakling
They use updated map versions with improved mineral formations (though I would almost guess they missed a lot of problems...). I guess that was changed, too.
modified by Freakling
outscar
Yes, you are absolutely true Freak. Avalon looks not that bad map right now and path issue is not a problem for pros'.

P.S.:
I wonder if any of mapmakers want to play with someone noob to test their maps? The problem is I can't freaking host (provider sucks, definitely going to change it when i reach C rank at least :) ) If someone is willing to test their map my iccup id is same (outscar). BTW, luckily I can host at Garena. Let's test every map you wish and stream, because same iccup map pack starts to hurt my eyes literally. I wrote to admin to look up some new maps, he promises but does nothing :(. Let's show them that we (you, not me) can make balanced maps and they deserve next map pack.
CardinalAllin
outscar which admin did you write to and when was this?

Freakling check your PM on tl.
outscar
It was Face, he is main admin IMHO and id is iCCup.Face. I suggested to add new HSL (or KSL) maps and to remove Alternative; Gaia; Pathfinder
modified by outscar
Freakling
Remove LT, keep Pathfinder!
outscar
Oh God, no! You can't send into trash a classical masterpiece. And I see that 10-15% of people are still playing LT. How would you felt if newbie comes into BW and sees that he can't train on the first ladder map?

I think Reap The Storm can replace Pathfinder easily, and it is same tileset/layout, looking similar.

EDIT:
And also finally add Oxide, because so many people yelling about this map, especially my friend. That map was suggested and favored for last pack.
modified by outscar
Freakling
Updated with 0.93 version.
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