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Last update for (4)Ordeal_III_3.0 : 2015, 11, 22 16:14
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
4803 (4)Ordeal_III_3.0 128*128LatiAs1.0finalground

The map has been rated 24 times and got a total of 23 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


LatiAs
1'o clock - Fighting Spirits
5'o clock - La Mancha
7'o clock - Circuit Breakers
11'o clock + Center - GrandLine

Funny map :)

+ I add some path and mineral base because of balance.
modified by LatiAs
CardinalAllin
This is fun, I like it, well done.
I would make some buildable space for terran between the nat and the 3rd, in the Top Left spawn.
Freakling
Time to revive this old competition :P

Looks good. Top right still seems like a lot easier to defend three/four bases on than any of the other spawns (only two bridges and one downwards ramp, as opposed to upwards ramps and open areas for the other positions).
outscar
Hi LatiAs! Do you have permission to suggest some new maps for VANT Starleague? Stream here:
English: http://afreeca.tv/starleagueAF
Korean: http://play.afreeca.com/afstar1

They keep using same old maps. If you can I think you should contact Yellow since Kongdoo is his company and recommend some maps and this site. There was discussion last time that OGN didn't like to use new maps but maybe this time they will accept it. Thanks in advance if you'll try.

modified by outscar
LatiAs
No, I didn't.
I didn't have any information of new league.
And in my opinion, if they have any willingness to use some new map, maybe they contact to me first. But they didn't.

VANT StarLeague is completely opened league. Pros had to get through the preliminaries too. I think that players don't like unfamiliar maps.

Korean server is very inflexible. For example, In ladder system, there is no map used except FS. Every strategy is optimized at FS.

Yeah, I know this is very significant problem. Korean BW has no more development, and they are too conservative to use some new thing.
That's not only pro's opinion. Almost every user don't have any idea about new maps!

You know what? When I uploaded my maps at Sonic's site, many users didn't have any interst about map, and other said 'It's like ~~(official maps)'

What can I do? Someone said about Demian that it looks like Destination(Because they are both Badlands maps.). Someone couldn't realize that Noah's Ark's form is diagonal symmetry.

THEY DON'T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE AND ANY INTERST ABOUT AMATEUR's MAPS INCLUDE PROs. EVEN SOMEONE DISLIKE USING NEW MAPS AT LEAGUE.

Think about why OGN refuse to use new maps while they said 'Renewal of StarLeague.'

Actually, there is another league in afreeca, which is managed by KCM(who did Announcer at MBC Game and SPOTV Games). I contacted him, but he said to me that he don't have any plan to use new map.
Than, I give up. It was my last chance.
outscar
Sorry to hear this but I expected this type of news though. I truly can't understand players, do they think that they can affiliate their strategies only at FS? Even hardcore oldschool fans and viewers are getting tired from FS/CB and wanting new changes. BW isn't DotA, any other map can be used because it won't break up any aspect of game but they even refuse to test new things.

I watched some KCM's Legend showmatches and he used pretty old maps, even Luna. I understand him, he don't wants to take a risk because he needs to get agreement with players who playing it 1st time and to not have conflict with viewers who watching it 1st time.

Well, last chance can be only to spread up some good maps in Fish ladder by whispering to pro's to try it, making tons of games with only those maps. I know you won't do it because that's time consuming, it is a difficult and unrewarding hopeless task. Anyway thanks for still supporting and making awesome maps.
Freakling
This is how the situation looks to me:

Players (especially professional ones) are simply afraid of the unkonwn, I think. It makes things more unpredictable and they have to adapt anew to every change. They will pick any old map, with any known imbalance over a new map with unknown balance.

they certainly do not think about the long-term sustainability of Brood War, simply want to cash up on it as long as they still can.

It's the tournament hosts you need to convince. In the Kespa era, things were simply. Kespa knew they needed a regular influx of new maps, including very experimental ones, to keep the experience and competition fresh.

Unfortunately, currently Korean tourney hosts seem to be rather reluctant in that regard.
I think this is partly the case because the attempts to use new maps have so far been rather terrible failures, and part of that is actually to blame on the map makers, who delivered just terrible quality.

- Wind and Cloud was the only halfway-decent map from a whole pile they tried for SSL9(?).
- technically, Pamir Plateau also got a hand full of games on it, but looking at the map and its very apparent imbalances (and the very predictable games that ensued) it is not hard to see why this was not further persued

- Golden Cross, aside from looking as if Earthattack had lost all interest in it half way through making it, was so badly tested (=not at all) - I am talking about basic stuff like making sure mineral lines actually mine properly - that players game-testing it just looked at it in disgust. Players are bad at distinguishing easily fixed from serious problems in maps. You should not leave this kind of stuff to actual game-testers (though Kespa did, but they had the power, the will and the ready supply of testers; this is simply no longer feasible...) It also
- Mist is pretty nice, but basically just a reiteration of Earthattack\'s previous maps (basically superimposing Outsider/Great Barrier Reef minerals on the layout of Chain Reaction), rather limited as a map as it works not very well as a macro map and the one original thing it has to offer - the vision blockers on the middle bridge, are rather there for novelty value than as a very thought-out implementation of concept (he probably should have had a look at some SC2 maps...)

- The whole bunch of the yeonun maps is just a giant screw-up - from a melee-maping point of view, and hiring him as mapper was really a mislead decision on the organizers' part tro begin with (strange, considering that Sonic, just as Yellow, has actually played the game back in the day...)

- Avalon is so full of amateurish mistakes and unfixed bugs that I would be ashamed if I had delivered it in its current state to a tourney host...

- Demian is actually really good and well made. I guess here it is on the players again to really show its potential (i.e. not cheese) and for tourney hosts to give it a long-enough run to get past that early stage of adaption to the map.

Down the line, players being incredibly conservative and people not being able to grasp things such as tile-sets and symmetry is something that only education can help...
And then convince them that you can actually deliver much better quality than any of the rather half-hearted attempts I listed above...
modified by Freakling
ptar
After my 5 years longtime break i was actually wondering what happend to mapdori and intothemap.com? Tried sending Latias a pm but i couldn't figure out his excact name. Atleast in the users list his name appears to be pretty damn long.

Any source of all the great korean maps or are they all gone?

Greetings, ptar
(still loving broodwar)
CardinalAllin
Good to see you ptar.
LatiAs
I'm sorry but as far as i know, there is no more Korean melee map site and active map makers.

Maybe I'm the last and most active mapper among intothemap.com's main members.

I have no idea about what everyone is doing, but many of my colleague is working with StarCraft II.
If you know about OMIT(Managed by Jacky), I can tell you that Team Crux(formal SC2 Official map team) originate with OMIT.

But... I think there is no more expert melee map maker in Korea.
Think about it. There is no more official league, and users(include pros) don't like new maps. no one recognize your maps, and sole map community was gone, so you can't exchange any opinion with other map makers.
In this case, can you have any will to make maps?




I don't know reason that intothemap.com shut down exactly(maybe nobody know, except one).
As far as I know, Berserk.E(Intothemap.com's administrator, former MBC Games project cheif) had some monetary problem, and he couldn't pay site's running cost well.
Plus, some problem like D-DOS made him disgust with managing site.
But Nobody could contact with him include other intermediary management, and at some point, he didn't pay money for site. That's it.
ptar
Oh damn. That's a pretty sad thing to hear :`(

Used to have round about 500 maps from diffrent korean mappers like Rkas etc.
Lost all of them over the years.

Is there a chance you have some of those on your hardrive and could give them to me somehow? Would realy appreciate it.

Btw, i love your maps too :D
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