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Last update for (2)Krator : 2006, 02, 26 21:58
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
750 (2)Krator 128*96Inept (PIMPED)0.1final

The map has been rated 46 times and got a total of 5 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


lnept
i was going for a map with fast-paced close bases but at the same time many island expos. i knows its a little cramped in the middle, not sure what to change in middle.
panschk
please add image :O
lnept
dont know how. (i use normal editor other ones too wierd to use)
flothefreak
look in our filebase :)
lnept
how does map converter work ? when i open it it just says error about something
flothefreak
I'm using SCMDraft2, don't ask me :D
flothefreak
if you don't want to use different editors, check out "scm2jpeg"
I uploaded it right now, it's very handy and more than easy to have it work permanently :)
lnept
ok picture is up
lnept
any feedback ~~
panschk
It actually isn't a bad map. Some things are still worth improving:
Choke width: Much too wide, especially as there are two entries to main also. Think of us poor terrans TvP :[ Make 1-rax wallin possible on the main choke.
Overall style: Why are the expansions at top right and bottom left so different? one is like an arrow in the water, the other a little curb. Also get rid of all those straight lines, does not look good on image, and even less in game. flothefreak did an article on making a map look good.
gas issue: gas on top would be better, but pay attention to the risk of cliffdrops on those high ground areas.
lnept
well i thought the choke and double entrance would even it out a bit since terran has buildable terrain in middle, higher ground middle. they could set up tanks there so i had to do something to make flanks possible. also terran can lift cc for fast expo.

i couldnt really fit a arrow bot left so maybe ill just change the arrow to a curb.

dunno about gas
lnept
fixed gas for white, choke, and changed arrow to a curb. also got rid of the "straight line" islands in bot left and top right by addin crevices.
panschk
try to get scmtojpg running. I know there can be problems sometimes, but just try it again and again, normally it will just work after some tries :O
lnept
??? i did thats how i got the picture up!
lnept
any other inputs on the new layout?
panschk
Well, nothing concrete right now, just improve the looks. Put love in every detail, change your desktop resolution do 640*480 and you'll see how plain many areas of the map still are. Compare that to maps like "crusader" or "chaos_factor" and you'll see what I mean :]
lnept
added some doodads :)
lnept
gah only one person comment is not very helpful :(
anyone else ??
Starparty
Its hard to know where to start... basicly you hav to combine balancing with style (generally) and to apply it on this map would mean to widen the paths and still make it look more natural by uneven edges and varied terrain.

Take a look at maps by Travin or SummerSky to see how they make the "natural" look on their maps. Try to mix that style into your map and it will look nice.

think about doing something about the hill in the center, because protoss and zerg will have troubles flanking. It might be too powerfull if a terran dominates it.
panschk
Agree with SP.
See, a map should just be detailed and beautiful, while still balanced, playable etc. If trcc, flo or Starparty use 1000 clicks on their maps, you maybe have 200, and it shows :/
lnept
what do you mean by natural ? i know of many pro maps that they basically just use 1 terrain and others here and there, like bifrost or paranoid for example
Starparty
a repeated pattern of doodads look unnatural for example.
lnept
ok i will get rod of those little cross things, but with the moon craters i was trying to emphasize the paths , not as doodads.
decaf
I'm trying to remember who i know with the user name lnept
Starparty
and the holes in the islands are horrible for the expo placement, get rid of them
lnept
just a tad of originality ;)

decaf- BlindAlbino[Cs] new name Lnept on Useast
lnept
anyone know why i cant update the map ? the new version looks much better
trcc
wrong password or it says the file bla bla too big, or miss .scm file ?
lnept
none of them, when i press ok my screen just goes blank and when i come back it shows my map as "no terrain"
trcc
This is not what i call putting love in a map! Youjust put random terrain 1 spot there , ok another one there.. And the mineral placement is quite bad :|
lnept
i updated it real picture
lnept
that is how i want it to look, not fancy
lnept
wait a second what do you mean by 1 spot there and another there ? that is the only way to do it ?? unless you can mix terrain some how...
flothefreak
you want it to look like THIS?
have you seen this ingame, it's a nightmare there (actually one before christmas)
lnept
why does the map matter what it look like, i thought maps were to game on. look at paranoid android its nothing special yet its pro, same with nostalgia.
lnept
and what he mean by mixing terrains ? some terrains are bigger spots then others. like dirt is a small spot and flagstones takes up a big spot which messes up the map.
flothefreak
this made my day, thanks :D

please erase all doodads and all terrain that is not dirt. I feel distracted by it, a map should only be good at playing.
you're right. I will change my experienc...eh...personal irrational opinion immediately!

and throw all your new clothes away plz, it's the inside which counts.


(The ending of this day was quite pleasing after all)
lnept
you no answer my question . what you rambling about ? this has nothing to do with map make ? what is mixing terrain ? what is wrong with doodad ? and why erase all terrain that is not dirt ?
trcc
All the textures look squarish, i could make decoration lok better in less than 2 min , and it would still beat youres =/
lnept
how do you make them not squarish
Starparty
I told you, try looking at some of the MotW's. see how the terrain looks natural and tasteful. compare them and try to copy. eventually you will develop a style of your own.
lnept
im starting to wish scmdraft dont give me so many errors and is wierd to use... normal editor is so hard to use lol
doesnt everyone have there own opinion of what is tasteful though ? i personally like squares of terrain~~ guess im the only one here
trcc
BAHBHBWHBAHAH why thumbnail work on all forums except this one :@@@@@@@@

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2748/kratortrcver1om.jpg

Use the link instead =O
lnept
yes but you made it look like every other map...triple bridge overused, normal expos overused, ramp highground ramp overused, no islands in corners, and i never had resources in mid, you also took out my basilisk idea with the blocks being blockers for cannon setups and such.

can no one understand original ??
flothefreak
well, original is no synonym for good.
If you're a experienced mapmaker, you'll be able to cope with balancing problems in original maps. but if you don't succeed, stick to standard ones at first, in order to improve your skills.

If you don't original will end up imbalanced, because those two are only divided by hairsize
panschk


WOW!

This just looks really nice, MOTW!
trcc
I removed 2 islands cuz here we have a ground map with 4 islands.. It's stupid imho to have 4 islands, one that can be actually used to park tanks and kill most of the base, and the other one in a corner with the horriblest mineral placement ever made. The bridges and the cliff doesn't care much you could made it without bridges or cliff, though it was to add something cool, But hey, it was only a try in 1h30 to see what i could do with your map, and also take a look at the details ive done.. It does not look squarish. I never intended to make this map YOUR map. It is to make you realize how bad your map looks like (decoration)
lnept
that is the problem i think your map is too complicated, i like simple maps(bifrost,Paranoid)
lnept
also middle expos will confuse unit AI. your units will move thru the mineral line
trcc
Units won't be confused... theres enough space to go around the expand, and why is this map complicated... YOURES IS WAY more complicated. Bridges everywhere, small paths in middle with cliffs wtf.. What you say don't make sense at all
lnept
random terrains everywhere doodad everywhere, strange high terrain lines in places and 6 bridges for a place where only one bridge was needed
trcc
1 bridge is bad idea imho, too easy to protect an such a gas expand.. Random terrains is what makes a beautiful map, since the terrain doesn't really change the gameplay, (except unbuildable terrain and snow in ice terrain). The doodads are not everywhere, as you say.. They are only a few of em, it is always hard to tell from a SS. Wanna see a lot of doodads? go see chaos factor, grape of wraith, sattarchasm etc
flothefreak
panschk's version of this map has a cool structure, and there won't be any pathing problems because it is built very clever and long-sighted.

one single brigde is often gay because of its easiness to protect and a normally bad unit movement.
the mineral line is pushed to the edge so there won't be confusion about AI :I
and the "strange high terrain lines" as criticism? do you have ANY idea of mapmaking?

you just wanted to find something to criticize cuz you cannot stand it when someone is improving your map so easily
modified by flothefreak
Listoric
nice map in structure, really.
Starparty
can i pimp this?
modified by Starparty
flothefreak
gosh, corrected a bit that crappy english up there
inept
yes you may~~
trcc
Omagosh it will be pimped twice :P ( btw, the picture which panschk posted is from the link i gave above o_= which is me who did it :P ) --- > flothefreak -

"panschk's version of this map has a cool structure"
inept
lol && who was the cool person that brought back this crazy old therad anyway
Starparty
* * * Your map has been PIMPED * * *
LGI
Awsome look, but poor zergs... The gas will very hard for them...
modified by LGI
Starparty
well it didnt play normal before either :) i put low amount of minerals in nat and main to prevent too cheesy rushes
Starparty
lol updated everything, i forgot a small doodad :)
Listoric
Haha, great one. Looks very interesting!
flothefreak
personally I think your other pimping (lol) were better. still a nice job, looks good.
yenku
I think it looks nice, too bad I didnt get to see it before update..
flothefreak
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/competition/showcomp.php?compid=34
LGI
Btw, this map has been pimped twice lol! First trcc, now Starparty, mayby someone will try better :)
inept
funy thing is that is was my first map ever and it was when i started making maps just because i wanted to try this wierd ass map
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--eS-X.starpARTy vs flothefreak(1on1, 1.13)

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