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07/02/2025

13:23

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Spells on Maps Contest page: 1 2
Nightmarjoo	zomg please comment/discuss/argue!!!1
2007, 04, 06 16:24
NastyMarine	idk.. you know what i feel about swarm. It would be really too hurtful for Terrans as they have weak melee'ers and a lack of powerful spells on multiple units. so i just dont like the idea of how to approach a never ending swarm. but maybe its biased from being a T player but there is no practical way for a terran to utilize or fight an enemy like P and Z can. d webs are a different story as the effects arent as drastically different to all teh races. they affect the gameplay for each races the same way. modified by NastyMarine
2007, 04, 06 18:47
Nightmarjoo	lol ok, well how does t avoid swarm most of the time? They get away from it and kill the defiler. But z remakes the defiler, and once you run from one swarm, he makes another swarm, and eats his lings to make many more. With these swarms, they don't go away, but they don't follow your retreating army either. Certainly a mapper would have to be very carefull about where they place swarms. But again, TINTBSO!
2007, 04, 06 20:06
LostTampon	ye, permanently placed swarms are avoidable; the main advantage of defilers is, that you can place swarms directly into the enemy army to your favour if you know that there is a permanent swarm you can check if there are any threats beneath it and react accordingly - of course the perm-swarms should be placed with caution, because they can block a pathway completely; maybe they can be used to balance maps out where t>>>z and p>z (well p>z does not happen very often)
2007, 04, 06 20:30
Nightmarjoo	Yeah. about p>z, I don't like Tau Cross zvp, it's so easy to get 3base and 3gas, and I still lose zvp on it >< Also, what do you think about Baekdu(Neo of course), I think it's either p=z or p>z, because of the expo location. Also, p>z happens like all the time a map is t>p lol
2007, 04, 06 20:33
LostTampon	hm, most z >> !z maps are those maps where expos are far apart and realtively easy to secure in tau cross i think it is p=z; the first 3 expos are close together, but on the other hand it is very difficult to get more than these additional 3 expos on PoB id say that p slightly > z; expos arent really close together but their layouts makes them rather difficult to defend
2007, 04, 06 20:47
Nightmarjoo	lol "z >>!z" I love that :D But also maps favour zerg when they have lot's of room to flank, have easy to sunk nats, have gas only expos!, and many routes to bases (random lings ftw), and/or no or little room for cannons or stuff. Alternatively, maps with ramps as key paths favour zerg's lurkers. Especially when those ramps have swarms on them^^
2007, 04, 06 20:53
Lancet	Sorry, during the last few days I have only had sporadic access to my computer and these kind of posts require some thinking. These are some quick replies and ideas, but I have to go. I guess we will have to get gutsy and make maps with swarms and dwebs in areas of intense gameplay and then just look at the reps and how often a given race wins or loses. Bring them on! A comment I got about Caissa was "carrier paradise" based on the belief, I guess, that it will be hard to maneuver units around dwebs to shoot them down. Thought about the ideal placement of spider mines around dwebs? I think that it would be on the side opposite where the enemy is. An often used toss strategy is to move the observer ahead of some goons blasting the mines. If the mines are placed in such a way that the goons come within range of the mine within a dweb they won't be able to blast it and moving out of the dweb would activate them. Of course you could use archons or probes to do this or you may send a zeal or two to mop up the mines. I will take a look at the replays and maps you mentioned. I am looking forward to you placing these ideas as a formal article in the article section. Too bad it is only you and me writting here, it would be nice to get input from others.
2007, 04, 07 02:12
Nightmarjoo	Hey, LostTampon gave some nice input too! But yes I do wish more people added stuff :)
2007, 04, 07 03:27
LostTampon	@nightmarjoo: im not so sure about the statement that maps favour zerg when there is a lot room to flank - zerg need also tight passages for containing. in maps like forte it is said that t > z because there is too much room for terran to avoid and outmicro lurkers. about zvp at forte im not sure
2007, 04, 07 12:27
Nightmarjoo	Forte is dumb. Probably p>z, the openness doesn't matter, all the expos are away from it.
2007, 04, 07 21:52
NastyMarine	"lol ok, well how does t avoid swarm most of the time? They get away from it and kill the defiler. But z remakes the defiler, and once you run from one swarm, he makes another swarm, and eats his lings to make many more. With these swarms, they don't go away, but they don't follow your retreating army either. Certainly a mapper would have to be very carefull about where they place swarms. But again, TINTBSO!" then it wouldnt be wise to put these in nats or mains right?
2007, 04, 07 21:59
Nightmarjoo	depends on size of base. Mains, I think can have swarms in them, as they tend to be pretty big. Especially on a tk map, the mains are like half the map, you would have no balance issues from swarming in there^^ But in nats, there just isn't enough room, so a swarm would be so powerful there.
2007, 04, 08 01:41
lancet	Sorry, I didn't see the second page! With regards to the swarm issue, terran can place mines within a swarm and they will work right? Then it would seem to me that the first thing you do if there is a swarm in your main or nat is to mine it! Also, can ranged units destroy a mine within a swarm?
2007, 04, 09 18:23
LostTampon	no, any ground unit beneath a swarm is invincible to any direct non-special attack
2007, 04, 09 18:27
Alumni	I love having spells on maps but not alot of them to overkill it. I don't like having an insane amount of dwebs or swarms on maps, you just want enough to make gameplay interesting and slightly different (same deal with neutral buildings). Swarms and dwebs especially say in the middle areas I find, make battles interesting because other than just microing the army, you have a spell there you can either use or have it used against you. "What about maps like forte? Spells in maps would be great to add to a map like that with such a wasteland of space. In such a map, where a vast open land is necessary for the concept, adding spells would make it interesting and keep it from being just a wasteland." -Nightmarjoo My point exactly. Have minimal amounts but enough that will make gameplay different than the standard. I'd like to see spells used more often in maps... even neutral buildings. I have a new map almost ready to upload and you will see what i mean :)
2007, 04, 10 01:50
Lancet	Overlapping Spells Many mapers have the notion that spells can't overlap but that is not so. Here I research the extent to which spells can overlap. Conditions: Scmdraft 2.0, grid set to "fine", each little square I will label a "unit". The "box" of the dweb is a square that is 10 by 10 units, the box of the swarm is a rectangle that is 12 (vertical) by 16 (horizontal) units. Vertically 2 dwebs can overlap 5 units (50%) but horizontally they can only overlap 2 units (20%). Vertically 2 swarms can overlap 2 units (16.7%) and horizontally 6 units (37.5%). Vertically a dweb can overlap a swarm 3 units and horizontally 4 units. If an overlap greater than the one specified above is attempted when the map is played overlapping dwebs will be "bumped" away from each other and in the case of overlapping swarms, one of them will not appear. Unfortunatelly the areas of overlap between swarms and dwebs do not share the characteristics of each spell. A unit can either experience the "swarm effect" or the "dweb effect", not both.
2007, 04, 22 01:22
Nightmarjoo	I think there's more content here than is in the article.
2007, 09, 25 04:44
Lancet	There is much, much more, a lot of it irrelevant, verbose, redundant or unrelated to the topic so I had to do a lot of editing. But I will read over it again to make sure I didn't miss anything.
2007, 09, 26 03:48
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