|Huh, i put this one as "experimental" ;o It's a mix of unusual mapping stuffs,|
- a 4 player map on 96 x 128
- in base expo on cliff ( min only )
- Expand in front with a gas node not accessible without broking the neutral buildings,
!!!!!!!!!!! Looks like im in a experimental week, flame me , comment the map on imbalances !!!!!!!! gogogogo and post some owls too.
|very sexy map trcc .. always impress. good flanking in the middle. and u managed to squeeze 4 players into a tighter map.. done in genius. gj.|
it is pretty weird wit the nuetral buildings surrounding the gas nat but i donnt think theres that much problems wit it.
Very tough to defend the damn nats tho!!! :(
modified by NastyMarine
|Well since theres mineral onyl inside the base, if the 3rd expansion is too easy to get, zerg will pwn the shit but i might be wrong D: So i though about slow them a bit with the neutral buildings around gas, but as i said, its experimental, so you can flame me or anything, discuss about the map, give your opinion, you are the people who help me to make good maps !! :)|
|Word.. ur right .. they would have a jump start jus a bit. but the min only doesnt provide protection to any of the bases. and the nat will be an EZ target with all the bridges leading to it. maybe have only 2.. one bigger than usual (not too big or it can be default size) and the other one smaller than usual. |
modified by NastyMarine
|trcc...Just place the neutral building ON the gas, instead of around it. Should work shouldn't it? |
Mainbase size is an issue again, how about making the high ground expo area smaller to gain more space?
modified by panschk[FP]
|lol i wanted to pull of a 2on2 map in 96x128 :D|
looks interesting. nice style, although i don't really like the mainbase and natural setup (personal)
|cant understand the point of blocking th gas though :P|
|We can't put neutral buildings on stuffs, you have to put the sprites exactly where you can put the unit neutral building O_- dunno if you understand.|
So i should make the main bigger by removing some of the cliff, andill scrap the neutral building thing and try to make something out of this cooler :o
|Where the owls •_° ?!|
|Hmmm, modified it, made the mains bigger, changed the natural setup, removed 1 bridge and added 1 mineral patch to help wallin|
|Looks great, really.|
very good job. and the blocked gas idea - wtf? ^^ good that you removed it. :P
modified by Listoric
|Wow... "it's a bit experimental", you say? Seems pretty nice.|
The asthetics are sexy as usual, trcc. gj with that. The actual gameplay seems very interesting as well. But do you think the in-base cliff would be too easy for T to use as a source of income? It may encourage turtling...
|Well, it changed a lot, thats why no more experimental ;P|
|looks really great. btw, I could imagine a mixture of your blocked-gas-idea and the "minonly" in ToE.|
like, there is a normal mining line but some additional (low-value, ~48-96) minerals blocking the gas. and if you exp there and start mining, those blocking mins are removed as well...
|nice, trcc ^^ But u can make better ^_^|
|what are my best maps mosq so i can actually understand more your comments on my last 4 maps|
|somehow the GMCS-pic is cramped|
|Nice map very balanced its sexy wish we could vote on it should be a motw.|
|Great map. Somehow it looks very simple and original. Total 10 out of 10 for the result with this map size. One of your most balance maps i think.|
|I can't show to GMCS, becuse of the size i guess, but bottom right min only. Terran can't make addon!|
|oh no this map sucks now terran cant make teh add on!!!! :p|
|I don't get it LGI O_+ are you sure? There's no doodad interfering with the CC|
|Well i play the map and i couldn't make a addon with the CC. I will check in the SE to see how it is, and i will edit my post. |
EDIT: Yep, look at bottom right min only exp. Place a CC in the SE and see for yourself. It's not a doodad that is blocking the addon, it's the cliff end.
modified by LGI
|Oh =[ ill fix|
|And stay 10 minutes against the wall with hands up!|
|I fixed it. Plus I finished the non working obs version *sigh*|
In a 4 player map, you need obs triggers to share vision for players 1 to 4, not only 1 to 2.
|Vote 10 for this its sexy|
|oops i took triggers from a 2 player map :[|
my bad god panschk!
|What should z do on this map? I think z don't have a chance if can't early exp to the gas natural but on this map it seems nearly impossible. And t gets a free mineral expo. Sorry if I'm dumb, I just would like to get some advices.|
|fix the mineral patches in chokes.. they are totally random and on both bottom bos you cant even wall properly with 1 rax.. trcc what were u thinking(??)|
|first of all the map is gorgeous!|
I'll play it today and put some reps :)
and the GMCS element ...
"maybe teal would like a gayser too"
very funny :) kind'a made my day :P
|"first of all the map is gorgeous!" damn right.this is what i call a good map.very impressive how he pressed a 4 pl. map into 96*128.|
kudos to trcc for his achievement!
|Actually this map is a bit more basic than galaxy,but in the old days people know what quality means:that's why motw.I like the simple yet unusual design.|
Take a look to the new ones.They glisten like a xmas tree,so opulent they are filled with useless stuff,but none of them can reach the conceptual pureness of this map.
Gimmicks and originality poorness can never substitute creativity...
|That's why OSL maps generally feature new things like the mass inverted ramps and now d-webs.|
Besides, there's way too little building room in your main, and a free exp and such a small choke after the nat means this map is a macrofest and/or turtlefest.
It was good in the old days, trcc has made much better maps then this.
|"That's why OSL maps generally feature new things like the mass inverted ramps and now d-webs."|
This doesnt make those maps better.This makes them,at most,different compared to the "older".But surely not better.Some of those new maps are not just bad,they are a pain;under the esthetic aspect but also in the game.They cut out from the game many tactical posibilities like rushes,because firstly you have to destroy the entire neutral crap that stands between you and your rival.Also they offers always alibis for weak players."He breaks behind me thru the neutral.I couldnt see that unit because of the web".And other shit like that.
You wanna tell me that maps like Arkanoid are better than this one?
"Besides, there's way too little building room in your main"
And for what use is the surface of the plateau that ends with a choke in each main?
modified by DG)SpoilR
|Standard maps is not progress, no progress means dropping rates, we don't need a million luna's.|
And do you really want to build on low ground in your main, high ground on the expansion, and low ground at your minonly? Come on..
|You and others have a diffentent view that I have about what we mean with -standard-.Many maps have a standard reputation(like Luna,Sattarchasm,LT,Regnum Noctis,Arena,Galaxy P,Memory Cell),but this doesnt means they have the same look,or the way you play them is the same.The standard map stands in contradiction with the experimental one.|
My undertanding of -standard- is that evrything on a map doesnt create troubles in the game.Pathes are good for all the races(not to open not to tight),expos are placed so that they can provide a nice flow in the game,not to close to each other and also not to bigger clusters of resources in each of them.Also evry standard map have open places for macro fights and the tactical possibility to flank.
Experimental maps try in different ways to find a alternative answer to all the things I mentioned before.By using neutral stuff,unusual resource placement(double min lines,etc)or unusual terrain design(like the big pyramid by grig).Mostly promise more than they can deliever,in the most cases by cuting players tactical possiblilities.And if you call this progress,well...
Btw I would definitively build on the plateus(in this map).In some case also in the nat.It depends on what a race you play and the tactic you choose.As T I'm pretty sure...
modified by DG)SpoilR
|hmm my understanding of standard is when concepts in a map are not new, they are old, they are standard because every or many maps have those concepts. Things like having a main with 8-9 mineral blocks and a 5000 gas geyser, then a choke, then a nat, then another choke, but wide enough for attacking and movement etc. Now you can have countless trillions of new maps which are all standard, but have different layouts, different gameplay etc. A map is "experimental" when it tries new concepts which you don't know everything about. It can be hard to determine balance on these maps because mappers/gamers have not encountered it before, and don't know exactly how it will work. When I made Angband, I did not call it experimental. It's an island map, with a nat, with far gas from the nat. You can find that in Dream of Balhae. It has neutrals which make it island, and if you break them it is no longer island, you can find that in The Last Conflict and other maps, or some maps have that only with minerals not buildings (coulee etc). It has a main in lowground surrounded by highground, there's that one horrible twilight map similar to that. The map has spells in it, neutrals, mineral walls. It's very innovative, but not new. It just uses virtually every possible concept sorta. It's not standard, but I wouldn't call it experimental.|
This map? Completely standard. A map can be new and innovative without leaving fully standardization.
Also, even if you build on the plateau, pathing down the ramp would be awkward for large units (tanks/goons etc), and there is part of the cliff which you can't build on on either height level, I don't think there is very much space, but I think it is probably enough, just tight/uncomfortable maybe.
|i agree with nightmarjoo. though, i would still put angband into experimental, because all those features - even if they have been done before - are NEW when combined. |
a more standard map can easily play fresh and innovative by the way.
|The concept of an in-main mineral-only expo and a gas nat is old, it is in the map "Roads to Antiga Prime" (RTAP) from the 2005 Blizzard Invitational but it was probably implemented before that. The difference between this map and RTAP is that the gas nat here is more difficult to defend. The novelty here is that it is a 4 player map in a 96x128 map.|
In my opinion you should add an additional mineral clump to the main and gas nats.
|rtap is from BWMN as well...|
|lol people forget bwm used to make many maps people actually saw and liked, then bwm went into dark age, and we're starting to come back from it now I think|