|well i finally finished the map.. i like how it turned out, but it still isnt perfect.. the 6 oclock main, i think, is still abit too small but i dont think there is a significant difference.|
the nat is min only.. mainly cause there isnt a whole lot space in the nat, but i felt that it wasnt a bad idea so i stuck with it.. I dont know how this map will play in 2v2 since there is a lack of 2 nuetral gas expos in the map, but im sure it will be fine in a 1v1.
comments and suggestions welcome
p.s.: i didnt give the map a description yet, nor did i set the start locs to user selectable so ill fix that in a bit
|thanks for gmcs lgi. well i understand the cliffs by the nats are really not necessary but i figured that it could be used for some type of drop so that u can attack from different sides. about the openiness about the gas expands for blue and purple, if i make those areas any tighter, it will constrict the passage to the nats, which will favor T push towards the nat, or securing those expos to expand. I also focused on keeping them fair as much as i could. For instance, red and teal's vesepene gas at those expos are alittle be more harassable than the others and those expos do not cover the nats choke as much as the other ones do.|
I tried to balance it out the best i could since its shape (the map) restricts alot of options.
|Well it's hard to drop on those cliffs couse they are stick to the map edge... You drop ships or w/e should pass right trugh your expo or main base...|
|I thought I might as well point out - it's spelled Aiur, not Auir.|
|o shit thanks|
|dang what you doin lurking this website boongee lol|
do you even play still?
|nah not rly I just have nothing better to do so I stop by and look at all the crappy new maps every once in a while|
|well thats comforting -_-|
|nothing of special and too boring...it is the usual map...|
modified by Valkyrion
|the 2nd expo seems to easy...turtle-style.|
and you really need to "show" how you have to build wall-ins at bottom, esp. the one on right bottom pos is really weird/unusual. take buildable doodads or similar to give a blueprint for them
like this maybe:
it isnt relly beautiful, but with bridges as entrance, you have to prefer playability over look concerning wall-ins.
modified by flothefreak
|they all are 1 rax 2 depot wallable.. its not hard to figure out where to place the depots and rax imo. I dont see where the problem is... ur picture is the same as the map is.. except u added mass deco there |
|well, get some random player to play TvP on this map. i am sure he will be happy to either:|
-be not able to build a wall-in because he doesnt know
-to build a wall-in which shows to be NOT safe
-to try around while gaming in order to figure out a wall-in.
and yes, i only added mass deco. if you can read, you will see that this is what i said: adding deco so you KNOW what wall-in works. i fuckin know wall-ins are possible, but well, start 1on1/2on2 with terran players playing the map for the first time (and maybe without even having seen the picture). you will see what you get. i dont tell you all this at random.
|i know flo... but its not hard to figure out a wall in at all four.. and the way u put is not the only way u can wall in there.. i really dont know exactly why ur bring up how to wall it correctly. its insignificant. btw.. the only players that join random maps are less equiped players (skill wise) to play correctly.. now I dont wall as a terran so really cant tell you how effective it is.. but i will play some games on it tonight, upload the reps to show u how it plays okay? I think u may be overdramatizing the wall-in efficiency here a bit.|
|what other wall-in on bottom right works then, beside the shown one?|
tho smaller units can pass by (i think) it should be fine. I dont think maps should guide the player to do things.. I'm not too sure i like the blueprint idea.. i mean, we're not supposed to be babying players :) are we? :P
modified by NastyMarine
|dont try to argue without nowledge backing up what you say. "supply" on the very left of "barrack" is never blocking zealots. which means your ___obvious___ setup is not working. and when the obvious setup fails, you prove my point perfectly (especially point 2 in the list i mentioned in my 2nd comment). players WILL have major problems with wall-ins (besides, most Ts wont try wall-ins on top pos either, because they aint sure if it works. this is no guess, but experience with maptesting). and once they build this (your) wall-in and have zealots invading their base unexpectedly, at the latest then they will curse your map and probably never play it again. |
it is a new map, and you fucking HAVE to baby players to make them feel comfortable and to make playing on this map as easy/clear as possible for them.
but well, you never really listen to what i say, so do as you wish. i am sure players will love the random gambling about wall-ins.
|flo u know ur pretty bm right? its not hard to say it and not be bm...|
|In that case i am BM too... I would post the same posts as Flo, but i am too lazy.|
I just want to say that for those small mistakes that we let happen, one day this map will become MotW (and if the mistakes are still the same) would be a bad choise, and then would be again bad choise if the map gets further then the MotW title.
I am just sick of seening maps whit mistakes in PGT or somewhere else.
P.S. Maps whit bridges for an entrance CAN'T BE A REAL MOTW CANDIDATE! For a spesific tournament - OK, but not for a real pro map or whatever...
modified by LGI
|Besides the issues already brought up, it looks nice.|
|@LGI: i dont quite understand what is wrong with bridge entrances? is it an imba?|
@flo and LGI: Any good player, that is interested in playing this map would study how to wall in any situation.. my wallin is fine even if a P is willing to send a zlot(s) to my base... zlots arent hard to defend and any decent T can hold off zlot rush with decent micro, scouting, and speed tech to vults. And actually i havent played to many games these days where p's send zlots in the begining.. it may be different for others, but it explains why i dont see it as a huge concern.. like i said, making deco blueprints for wall-ins is unncessary imo and it would be babying players for they're lack of patience to think out an efficient wall-in.
but i still would like to know why bridge entrances are bad? i dont have a clue why.
modified by NastyMarine
|Looks like gaia, but a bit macro-wise oriented, still a good map.|
|If you play more games, you will understand why. The reason that they are imba, are because they are long and tight. A long and tight choke can help a lot in defence for every race, but terran gets the most advantage when he starts to camp in front of you, because all your army is in one row. Also the storm form the high templar is really strong on those bridges, because you can just cast it on the bridge and you will know that you will hit everything - means no skills.|
You can see by yourself, there is no pro map whit a bridge for a choke. This is just givining advance to all newbs players, because in every game on a map whit a bridge a lot of army will die only because of a bridge. You can't actually show your skills and micro/macro control in real battle.
I hope you understand me what i mean. Every time the winner will be the first dude who takeover the bridge or just make some free kills on the bridge.
And don't forget we should make maps that can give any type of stratagys and not to force players to "do this and this, because this is the way to win".
|that is not what i was talking about, though. but wtf, why do you enable easy wallin on 2-3 positions, while you tell the other guy zeals wouldnt be a threat? why do you think wall-ins were invented? the only reason why there aint so many zeal-rushes IS THE WALL-IN. just see games on luna and start thinking...|
besides, i dont doubt players _could_ find out the wall-in. the question is, DO they? it is a unknown map for them, do you really think they will test wall-ins?? do you really think they practise wall-ins only to play on this very map?
so much until here. i end with a quote of mine, and the promise never to "help" you again.
"but well, you never really listen to what i say, so do as you wish."
|flo u overdramatise things too much man.. and Im sorry but I stand at my choice to not baby players on every map.. i think u shouldnt see players as idiots b/c most players (that are good) find the best possible way to play maps, and finding a perfect wall-in is a part of it... thats what seperates good players from bad players.|
@LGI .. i understand that these bridges may promote easy defense etc (what u mentioned.. but why not change it up a bit? I understand that its not liked etc.., but i feel that this map needed something different so thats what i added.
|How come red and teal's gas-exps have nice cliffs overlooking them, while blue and purp have no such weakness?|
A tank can land on the high ground south of blue's gas-exp.
There are a bunch of tankable drop-spots on the low ground between the 2 left gas-exps... I can land 3 or 4 tanks over here and do some major damage.
The min-exps are pretty tankable from outside (even without dropping on the cliff!) Some more than others.
|sadly yes there is a bit of a positional imbalance, but nothing too serious/terrible about it thank fully.|
|looks like gaia's mirror|
|The differences begin right after the positions of the mains...|
|Please just play this map and you will see that the problems that u say about this map will not be true. The bridges really do not present a problem as u say they do. They dont serve any more a problem than a ramp.. not to mention that a ramp has a percentage change of a ranged attack when from the lower ground. so think of that when u try to attack a unit from another side of a bridge. there is no disadvantage or advantage that is present when u compare them.|
|ramps are wider than your bridges|
|but they do not have a percent change when range units on the low ground attack units that are on the highground.|
|so what, it's a tactical advantage. The main reason to use ramps as chokes is so you can stand a chance by having that advantage. Make the choke tighter and remove that advantage and you just killed a bunch of people.|