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Last update for (2)Svalbard West : 2007, 02, 16 20:32
|mapID||Mapname (comments)||map size||Author||Rating||Type||play type|
|2000|| (2)Svalbard West|| 128*128||Nightmarjoo||0.3||beta|
The map has been rated 52 times and got a total of 13 points
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|hah so 2000th map^^|
I have 7 other versions of this map, I messed around with it for a while before uploading it. The idea of this map is to encourage island play, without forcing it on the players. The map is intended to be playable just off the mainland, but the islands are encouraged to be used by having quite a bit of gas.
So the nat is gasless, the main has 10 blocks in compensation for having such a lowmoney nat, the only other gas in the mainland besides the main is at N/S. The thing in the middle sadly makes even paths, but the distance from main to main was too short without it.
The large ugly minerals on the lowground are to prevent tanks from being able to hit the main, there are weakpoints though where if you could land a worker there you could mine it out and harass from there. I doubt that will happen in a real game though =/
They are mineable, you could expo there if you wanted for some reason, but you'd only be able to mine like 2-3 minerals at once instead of the 6 you'll find on the islands. I have no exact count but both players should have about the same minerals on the ground by them, if that matters for positional balance.
The mains are smaller than I think most people make them nowadays, but from my playing experience they weren't a problem, and when I place buildings in staredit I don't see a problem. Bare in mind that a lower gas count will reduce the need for as many buildings which need gas and whatnot, and that hopefully the islands will be used.
The way I see it, this map will play sorta similarly to Arkanoid (bare with me please); in arkanoid it's an island map with the choice of going ground, my map is a ground map with the choice of going island. Some games in Arkanoid are almost all island play with drops etc, others are almost entirely ground, someone losing the air battles could take the warfare to the ground or vice versa. I think this map will play the opposite of Arkanoid, but with the same sorta thing. The map could stay ground, but a player could seize the opportunity and expo on the islands, the other player could in return go air himself, or try and defeat the player on ground, or himself expo to the islands, etc.
edit: btw the lowground expo has 1000 gas
edit: I just noticed something, the two main entrances are different, I can't figure out what's different/why/how etc. Must have happened after some edit, like I said there are several versions of this I have. idk what the difference is, but it doesn't effect walling at all.
modified by Nightmarjoo
|Use doodads instead of minerals =/ That looks retarded.|
|You can't use doodads because 1. some of it is dirt/snow, not one or the other so you can't place doodads there, 2. doodads don't cover all the space the way minerals do 3. Get over it?|
|Man, aint this 2 tight?|
|Well firstly, when I played it I didn't see any issues, unfortunately my internet was off for a bit so in this version I've only played it with comps. Secondly, a map being tight is a problem when: Tanks are used, their splash makes them deadly, you need to flank them to do any damage usually, storm is used, hard to avoid storm if you can't move around, lurks, hard to avoid their spines with no breathing room; all of those units require a significant amount of gas. Without the gas at the nat/most of the mainland, those units will be much fewer in count, making the need for a lot of open space not as important. I think there is enough space atm, testing will help prove/disprove that.|
|In tvz i think z has no possibility to get a gas expo before lurker/muta arrive (only having one gasincome).|
Would give the t an easy go, especially with 10 mineralblocks in base, no?
|why not invert the map? so you have no problems with those ugly minerals :P|
your minplacement could also be improved, try to place the mins so that the probes do not harvest from the back side
|DeSade I'm not sure :) Nostalgia has 9blocks in main and 7 in nat right? This map has 10 in main 6 in nat, same number only more in main. Essentially shouldn't play too differently than zvt in nostalgia, which has no gas at nat either.|
|@Losttampon, lol I don't wanna invert the map, but you could for the competition :)|
Which mins have issues?
|ok, mayb i was too fast with my comment, but it seems like the 3rd min from the bottom in both mains could cause bad mining up to the 5th min from the bottom --> can you verify that with testing? :)|
modified by LostTampon
|this map is a total failure.a concept that press you to use so much minerals or as alternative doodads,couldnt be right.also you don't have open places for battles on the ground.a tight maze.after the slogan"let me try something crazy"|
this map reminds me in some way on my time as student.you saw many things,but sadly you don't have the possibility to became them.like the minerals on your map
|It is my belief that a map does not have to be balanced. Heck, just play 3 games, one on a map that favors your race, one on a map that favors the other guy's race and one on a map that favors neither. So I don't care if a map is tight, or open or island etc.|
Having said that, I do agree that those minerals are an eyesore and after all, their only purpose is to prevent drops. One way out is to say like I say, "hey that's life" and allow for drops. Another possibility is to make more ground around the main and nat and just place debs there plus some doodads.
Finally, I think you could add an aditional island onthe corners.
|2000th map,ugly and imbalanced. :/|
|20000th comment, pointless and simply rude. :/|
|Grief, I already explained the purpose of the minerals, they're ugly yes, get over it. You cannot replace them with doodads. The map is not that tight honestly, please read what I said before you.|
Lancet the minerals prevent tanks from shooting the mains, not necessarily drops. If I took them out, terran could do a lot of damage from all sides of the main, whereas the other races wouldn't be able to do as much. I think the minerals are necessary.
I don't think adding another island will help anything also.
Scout please explain how the map is imbalanced istead of making a mosq comment.
Grief this really isn't a radically different map than others. On land it will likely play similarly to Nostalgia, and in air it will play like an air map -.- Also I don't understand a lot of what you said in that post.
LostTampon I haven't noticed any pathing issues with the mining in my games, I'll keep an eye out for it next time I play it.
|i think the minerals look good personally, but uh, yea i have different views on asthetics|
no fuckin way this game ever gets past a nat game unless its a mirror matchup or PvZ
TvZ looks so bad , as does PvT
|use critters instead of minerals|
|lnept what do you mean? What's wrong with those mus. Also, if there is something wrong, what are your suggestions on improving?|
|Nasty suggests pushing the valley through the whole middle, what do you guys think about that?|
|minerals are more secure|
|much too tight... it favours t in tvp way too much |
id suggest to remove at least the crevice in the middle of the map
modified by LostTampon
|like i've suggested before, i think you should make that valley stretch so that the only paths u can take to the other side is the ramps. This way, players can focus more on grabbing expos on the islands.|
|"much too tight... it favours t in tvp way too much" gasless nat, which is considered p>t so t>p + p>t = p=t :)|
|You wrote: "Lancet the minerals prevent tanks from shooting the mains, not necessarily drops. If I took them out, terran could do a lot of damage from all sides of the main, whereas the other races wouldn't be able to do as much. I think the minerals are necessary."|
LAND access to the area around the main can be easily blocked just by a FEW mineral clumps. The reason you placed sooooo many of them is because you fear a tank drop, period. And that is fine, but what everyone is trying to tell you is that there must be a better way to do this.
You also wrote: "I don't think adding another island will help anything also."
I didn't mean this to help anything, I just suggested a use for an otherwise unused map space.
|"everyone is trying to tell you is that there must be a better way to do this" I doubt it, but I do see your other points.|
Yeah I will decorate the water and whatnot later on, don't have the time atm.
|All good mappers agree, gameplay before beauty no?|
|Well, I can ignore those minerals, but this map seems to be way too tight. And the minonly nat won't help p a lot in pvt: More zeals for p, more vults for t. With only one gas, p won't be able to get many temps w/ storm which would be required to get rid of those mass vults. Also, the other expansions on the main land are too vulnerable and too close to the main routes to help p much.|
Back to the minerals: With a better choice of tileset, you'd have gotten around that problem easily. At first, design a concept, then decide which tileset you will use for it. Ice was a bad choice, obviously.
|i also think bad tileset, but this problem can be solved with tile-by-tile modifying (like i did in metal age to separate outpost and water-), well thats a lot of exhausting work, but i think the result would be way better. hey dont you think those minerals look horrible on minimap? |
modified by Antares
|gasless nat doesnt necessarily mean p>t; even with massvults and some tanks its easy to roll through that narrow path|
nostalgia has also a minonly nat, and its one of the most balanced maps out there
|actually, nostalgia pvt was ridiculously hard if terran got hold of his 3rd expo. whole thing was buildable and really tight.|
if pvt wont be bad, tvz without adoubt will terran knows you have to lurker off 1 gas, and will have more ling ratio, so just add a firebat, and sit at there nat and by the time they push anywhere near a 3rd expo, there dead already
|"Also, the other expansions on the main land are too vulnerable and too close to the main routes to help p much" yes, intended to point players to the islands|
"Back to the minerals: With a better choice of tileset, you'd have gotten around that problem easily. At first, design a concept, then decide which tileset you will use for it. Ice was a bad choice, obviously" ?
"hey dont you think those minerals look horrible on minimap?" yeah but idk if it would be possible to correct this using tiles, if it is possible, it would take forever =/
"sit at there nat and..." go islands? If staying on the mainland is so dificult why can't the players use the islands like they're supposed to?
|ive tried a similar concept, look at krator. and you will see how it got shot down as well, including by you. so i dont see how you can backup this map o.O|
|Slow push will rape TvP, 3rax will rape TvZ.|
By the way if you want to play testgames just message me on europe T_T
|LOL how stupid of me, how about I use dwebs instead of the minerals? I'll implement that tomorow.|
|Nightmarjoo, I have already suggested using dwebs to you in one of the posts above:|
"Another possibility is to make more ground around the main and nat and just place debs there plus some doodads."
Due to a typo I called them "debs", sorry if that was not clear.
|The whole mineral ugliness issue could be avoided by making it on jungle. I think the map has a good look as is ignoring the minerals, and the look is not dependent on the ice. |
Open a third route through the middle. The tightness isn't as bad as some have made it out ot be imo because there is decent room infront of the nats. A third route would still help though.
I would also bring the gas to the nats from the 6 and 12. The map is already very unique, and adding another unorthidox feature is just annoying.
|There is not really much room in front of the nats. Also consider that tanks can siege over the dividing line in the middle, thus reducing the available space there even more.|
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