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Last update for (2)Bifrost Converse : 2007, 06, 05 19:46
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2177 (2)Bifrost Converse 128*96flothefreak0.7final

The map has been rated 75 times and got a total of 51 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


flothefreak
yO
after the original by ragnarok.

no tests yet for wallin, blocking buildings etc.
i tried to keep as much as possible from the original version. only the ramps and some expo movement needed to be edited. (ramps for pos. balance and expo placement for pathing and some tactical options)

i dont know if i should further edit the whole concept to make it more balanced...llike, a single gasnode to the primary choke to enable 3hatching...
modified by flothefreak
LostTampon
yeah, reversed bifrost :D
why is the outer left sidepath on a spot tighter than the other one?
flothefreak
because of unawareness
oh, i forgot: i had a version in the beginning, which also copied the terrain deco formations exactly. but this looked even worse than normal bifrost (not even mud on highground to have another color than grey -.-), so i made some own deco; but i tried not to overload it.


/edit
corrected it. didnt make a new pic, though

here's the original btw.
Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

modified by flothefreak
epidiOn
I like your highground bridges, nice job.
Nightmarjoo
lol I like it. Yeah those highbirdges are cool.
Lancet
Great work, those bridges are amazing!
NastyMarine
great stuff. but you know any unit that is on the bridge will be on lowground tiles. meaning they will have hit percentage taken off vs units on the highground. which sucks balls. But great work. i had a feeling i would see this :)
flothefreak
thanks...those bridges were my biggest concern when inverting this map. the lowground/highground part is true, but i dont think there's a reasonable alternative...
LostTampon
well, lowground bridges are good for balance i think. afaik it is said that t>p on this map, these bridges make it harder for terran to push trough.
DeSade
nice but hey,
since you changed some details already (bigger bridges, direction of some ramps, decoration) why dont you make normal ramps instead of those ugly inverteds. This wouldn't change anything just like reverse the map also from top to bottom. Don't get me wrong inverteds are fine but these twighlight ones make me T_T

red's mainchoke looks bigger then blue's btw
modified by DeSade
spinesheath
Of course there is an alternative to bridges: High Dirt w/ doodz. Not so Bifrosty, though.
flothefreak
that's why i said no reasonable alternativ :o
NastyMarine
could you blend the bridge with basillica tiles?? i think you could do it. IT would ultimately help gameplay.
Alumni
i like the high ground bridges alot, ya really paid attention to detail :)
Nightmarjoo
I think the lowground thing is irrelevant, it's just a feature of the map, not an imbalance.
flothefreak
how should i blend the bridge with basilica, as there is no transition between basilica and other terrains...

if you meant flagstones: i tried that of course, and i came to the decision crushed rock fits better. flagstones are just too dark
Testbug
this kind of maps make me say "holly shit" congratulations flothefreak very very good work
NastyMarine
OFC its an imbalance. any range units on the bridge that are attacking an enemy on the high ground will have the high ground hit/miss ratio. how could that not be imbalanced????
DeSade
I think so too.
You should find another solution for the Bridges (which are nicely done though), it won't hurt the concept of the map. And did you notice my comment concerning the inverted ramps (don't want to annoy you :D)
Nightmarjoo
Nasty how is that imbalanced? Are you retarded? An imbalance is either where one position is fucked by positional differences, (this is not a positional imbalance, it's part of the map), or a racial imbalance where something favours or hurts heavily one race or another. Nothing about this is imbalance, it's a downward hill kinda thing or something.
flothefreak
calm down...
you're both messing racial imbalance with a map-bug. the bridges being lowground ARE a bug, and they may favour/disfavor some races in some situation, but that's not creating any striking imbalance.
i may make a transition to lowground before the bridges...dunno.


i tested walls: rax only DOESNT work, supply depot WORKS, on both positions, as it has to be (was in orig. bifrost as well afair)
NastyMarine
it is creating an imbalance. any ranged unit attacking a ground unit on the highground will have that hit ratio effect which makes it imbalance. that hurts gameplay! how can you argue that? that would make imbalance. imagine mm vs a team of hydras... who ever is not on the bridge has the clear advantage.. that goes to any ranged vs ground unit on the bridge.

maybe the word 'imbalanced' you are thinking of it differently. just cuz i say imbalanced, it doesn't have to mean a racial imbalance.
modified by NastyMarine
flothefreak
this is not imbalance. imbalance would be, if terran would rape everything on this map due to the bridges. what you mean is a map BUG, because it doesnt favor one race (making it IMBALANCED) but favors players who know how to use it.
it is like having an open area and a small corridor leading to it. zeals own lings in the corridor, the lings own zeals on open area. you just have to know when NOT to fight...
your argument would also fit on RoV - where gets first on the higher level has a large advantage. but isnt that just clear logic? it is kind of the same situation.

i agree with you that it is not perfect - but i will not destroy gameplay. maybe it even makes the map more interesting, and changing it some more.

NastyMarine
it hurts gameplay. and something like this is easily corrected. its not needed and it affects gameplay in a way that should not.
flothefreak
how is it easily corrected? the only thing i could think of would be a transition from high to low just before every end of every bridge...
modified by flothefreak
NastyMarine
basillica man sacrifice the look for gameplay.
flothefreak
and then blend basilica over flagstones to highground? i will see if i can do that
Testbug
why did you moved the main mines mineral fields?
and what is all that high ground at 7?
some units at 9 can attack the red mineral fields, blue choke is some safe.
i'll thank you if you use normal high dirt at NW and SE.
i like you double size bridges.
you can replace the high grown cervices with fragstones>basillica, but if you try to correct the bridge "imbalance" usin some gay terrain then it won't be inverted bifrost.
what abour dark swarm/disruption web?
nice map flothefreak, you are my idol from now on
Nightmarjoo
Nasty are you stupid? It's not an imbalance. Anyone not on the bridge shooting at it has the advantage, but it effects all players from all positions using all races equally, ergo, not an imbalance. It's part of the map, a feature is all. Hey guess what, anyone attacking someone from a cliff has the advantage, apparently all maps with both high and lowground are imabalanced according to Nasty.
flothefreak
i moved main mineral fields in order to add something to the gameplay, but also - more striking - the minerals and gases were shootable from outside. highground is bigger, and you can see through where in normal bifrost is a wall. i thought it would screw ZvT.

"and what is all that high ground at 7?" do you refer to that in the mainbase? well, it is just inverted from original bifrost. i only moved the ramp for pos.balance...

i also thought about spells, i could only imagine d-webs actually...
i will try the basilicathing, too - but i dont think i can make bridges out of it.

"some units at 9 can attack the red mineral fields, blue choke is some safe.
i'll thank you if you use normal high dirt at NW and SE."

those two, i dont understand them :<

thanks for the compliment :)
NastyMarine
Joel don't insult my intelligence. ITS NOT LIKE THE RAMPS SHOULD BE LIKE THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Stop being an idiot. The bridge to high ground shouldn't have that ranged hit ratio effect. No ifs, ands, or buts. it just shouldnt. theres no reason to not fix it. And the reason to fix it? i just stated why. its not good gameplay wise at all.

and yes it does cause imbalance. not in the matchups but during the actual battles that utilize those bridges. and not to mention if the units are only on the bridge, they will not see the high ground until a unit touches the high ground grid. THAT DOES CAUSE IMBALANCE.
Nightmarjoo
Then disruption webs permamently placed are imbalances, the dwebs and cliffs of Avatar are imbalanced. The cliffs in nazca are imbalanced. The cliffs in Undying are imbalanced. I just mentioned our Maps of the Year, all of them have cliffs, which apparently are imbalanced because anyone on the top has an advantage. Hell, starcraft is imbalanced. Why do we make maps here? It's all imbalanced. Fuck this shit, let's go do something that's possible, instead of try and make a balanced map. Gosu NastyMarine thinks everything is imbalanced, let's listen to him.

"Joel don't insult my intelligence" "Stop being an idiot" LGI???? Oh the irony.
Testbug
1) at 9 o'click some siege tanks (in the giht ground, not in the lowground) can attack the red base, wich is too small.

2)use the "high drit" terran at NW and SE expos
Nightmarjoo
why use high dirt?
flothefreak
yeah, i dont really get this too :<
spinesheath
Honestly, Nasty, this is no imbalance. It is wierd, but not imba. Just take Geometry, which has lots of wide ramps. Basically the battlefield consists of several highground areas and several areas that are of medium ground level (lowground would be low platform, rusty pit and space, if you wonder why I said "high" and "medium").
This map is exactly the same; the surrounding area is medium and the bridges are lowground. It is clearly visible where the bridges start, though you wouldn't expect that there is a height level change as there is no visible ramp.

Now care to explain how this is by any chance an imbalance when it is the same for both players?
flothefreak
i changed the bridges to basilica AND kept them. actually, they even look cooler now :>

i only may have to make the transitions more flowing on the pic. i hope you like it, imo it has cool style AND works like highground!
modified by flothefreak
DeSade
Great! Have to download it and take a closer look.

Nightmarjoo
I'm glad that spines was able to reiterate what I was trying to say.

Those highground bridges look amazing, this map was well done.
Testbug
GREAT
flothefreak you are my new idol
spinesheath
I agree that I basically said the same thing, Nightmarjoo :p

I someday might try to fix the blockiness in this as far as possible. Maybe :p
modified by spinesheath
NastyMarine
idk if anyone has noticed this, or let alone mentioned it, but the mains are totally different.
NastyMarine
the right most bridge in the middle is alot smaller than the other two. and i think the middle bridge is smaller than teh one on the right. Copy/paste each bridge flo, dont make it so hard on yourself.
NastyMarine
IDk why this is bothering me so much, but you really should make these changes flo.
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