|New map, what I've been making for few weeks. I truly like this map... My concept was to make a balanced map, with backdoor ramp with no min/neutral building block. I think I have succeeded in my concept. Only thing i'm worried is terran... Is this map too tight, so terran can easily push and take expands? I hope not... And again, as always; I want to hear all of your opinions, from bad to good!|
ps: Happy mothersday
|I wouldn't worry about it being too tight, the double entrance will be hard enough on terran. I would like to see the gas move from the top and bottom middle expos to the top left and bottom right. it looks like a lot of gas close the way it is now. might be too easy for z. only thing that really needs to change is the minerals, randomize them and make a pretty arrangement. great decoration and look on everything else though. gj|
|idk about the balance of the unguarded backdoor, but I've been working on a map with an unguarded backdoor too, so idk yet.|
|yes, look is very nice, so is innovation and concept. you'll have to see if ZvT with double entrance works, because a terran mm force can easily take the backdoorroute - it isnt much longer than direct path to natural. may work out, though. from expo layout, the map looks zergish, esp. hard for ZvP. the 12/6h gasexpo seem very unfair here. but maybe i am wrong and the tight rocky ground part can compensate this, for protoss has a good path for attacking it. i like those paths, for style, concept and look.|
all expos except naturals are very open, maybe too open for some MUs.
|Oh man, forgotten again to randomize minerals!!! GRRRRRRR... ^_^. Thx for creative posts, i'll take closer look to them later.. Now ima go watch eurovisions -----> |
Ps: Finland ftw, right?
|awesome map man, the unguarded backdoor i think is defendable with triple hatch and sunk but i dunno bout other matchups. won't really know until testing is done. |
looks beautiful, hopefully will play beautiful too :)
|thanks for your kind words :).. I dunno how to make an edit of this :DD|
|hm make NATURAL untankable from above - i think even marines can hit the gas now - and best would be also to safe it fromm tanks behind.|
modified by flothefreak
|A small edit:|
-Natural untankable from behind (The gas isn't safe, I kept it... It might be an interesting element in the map)
-Some small deco-changes.
|hmm. Uploaded 3* reps.. (Both are 1.15, i made little mistake with other, could some1 fix it?)|
Also there is empty rep, dunno where that came from, could some1 delete?
*I uploaded 1 more
modified by RaDiX
|good idea and not very good ballance... 7/10|
|"not very good balance", could you justify your statement? :)|
|I want testbug to comment this map :S :D... Really! Becouse I can't find anything to do better in this map :S|
|Ok.. Small edit:|
-Blocked backdoor with minblock (24)
-Made a 3rd path to 2nd natural, so it's not so easily defendable
-Small deco changes.
|those changes only hurt the map imo|
the 2nd expo was not easily gained anyway, so why make it even harder? you hurt gameplay and balance a lot with this...
i'd love to see how the backdoor works without the minblock. that unblocked ramp was something which could really make the difference. being blocked, it will hardly be used...
|ppl blamed me, how it's so imbalanced that 1)there's an unsecured backdoor, 2)2nd natural was imba, cuz it has gas, so i made it hard one to get..|
|i wouldnt kill this backdoor without having tested it, and not decide if an expo is too easy to get without having played the map.|
a 2nd expo having gas is not like, a balance killer -.-
imba for what mu btw?
modified by flothefreak
|Well I don't know, that's just what i've heard...|
Oh and the map has test-games (3), and more will come.. -.-
|so here are my suggestions:|
i will explain every one of them, i used paint so tell me when you're insecure if you understood right.
-ramps: make the 815 ramps, and try if you can let them open or if it gets overwhelming in TvZ, make a minblock. but as marines can only enter one by one, you might be able to easily surround the incoming with your lings.
-2nd expo: the red line is a cliffcut, it basically means to close the recently added path down, the blue thing is water to make the area aaround the expo tighter. so you'll be able to take it in TvP or PvZ. i skipped some redlinestuff on bottom position, but as there is water, there'll be a cliff anyway.
-centersidepaths are too open as well, i painted blue where you should add water to make them more comfortable around the expansions. it is harder to access them from the enemy's direction then, but is easy to attack through the ramps (i managed to get this painting better on the right side, left side is a bit screwed). however, you should make the ramps some smaller, i cut a bit out of them. notice i only used a thin line on the ramps. #
-for the center, i think i have a great idea. i placed the (2)Together center in there! when playing Together, i already noticed the perfectness of the center in cross positions. awesome, and it fits in this map! especially look closely how even the water of the pasted square forms some nice side-paths along the cliff, which you can use so well for strategic and tactical movement in the center. i used some blue lines as well to enhance and clarify the shape of those sidepaths (obviously, the blue lines represant a slim water line forming and disconnecting those paths from the center behind them). this slim waterline (make it as small as possible!) runs into your new little lakes.
i hope you understand all of this, if there is something NOT clear, contact me, because i really love this map, and with those changes, it WILL become your masterpiece.
|not 815 ramps (they sux) use Iron Flush ramps! ;)|
and center do is too opened.
making some beautiful/funny thin on it (flo's suggestion is not that beauty) will make the high ground routes useful (more important)
radix doesn's likes me to comment his maps, so i don't do it anymore, but i found a terran attacking your backdoor... you'll have to go all the way to the wide ramp where the backdoor route starts (thr corners minoly)
the entrance to the wide ramp is not too opened, lowjungle/highjungle is too tight and in the side may be a terran expo.
so a push in the backdoor tigh route will be too dangerous. (like in the original flush backdoor
becauseterran can build a los of turrets.
i know a 3gass protoss will always go for carriers, and your backdoor thing is in low ground and carriers in high ground are too powerfull.
you know the starcraft keyboard is in the SE where you click the move, stop etc things.
won't let you drop a tank in one of the 3 possible tank spots.
but in NW you can have the 3 spots.
if you use the iron flush ramp, then terran won't push in the backdoor because tanks and vultures can't use the ramp.
so the tighness of that route won't be a problem!
|Hello, it's new version! Hope you still like the middle flo, even i didn't make it as u said ^^...|
-2nd natural gas is 2000
-Map tightened from... Everywhere
-backdoor is 815-ramp (yes it is) still needs
-Deleted one entrance to 2nd natural
Tell me how u like it..
|hm, you lost some flair :<|
the center is spoiling the map now imo...
|asdddddddddfffffuck :DD:D.. Argh i hoped you'd like it :s... Are the other changes good or bad? I concider changing the middle again..|
|what the hell happen to this map? :/|
|What the fuck! Are those backdoor ramps realy so ugly? Think the former version was better. You've got some personal style, but it has gone with these changes :/|
|old version plz|
|hmph oki, edit coming ^^|
|copy paste Iron Flush center half sized ramps.|
and what's wrong with the center flo?
well RadiX maybe too tight paths, what about removing the water?
the problem now is the high ground way is too tight. i will prefer the lowground.
and well, those are not 815 ramps xD
and 815 ramps are ugly.
Iron Flush ramps are better
|yay more sexy. backdoorramps are lovely as 815 ramps. sidepaths are okay, they may need a bit tweaking here and there though, but you will notice that/if, when playing.|
the center is still somehow boring now. if you can manage to make it more than just a walk-through (which is why together-center was fitting in so perfectly-it gave the center high strategic value), we're cool and can go over to finetuning :>
|flo wanna pimp the middle? I'm stuck there -_-|
|i would do this (and dont tell me you didnt know what was going to happen!):|
i spent about an hour on this, i think it looks neat. it fits into the map perfectly. tell me if you want to have my version and i will upload it.
maybe you'd need to slightly enlarge the highground centerpaths, dunno. we'll see how large the paths are ingame, considering as well that you have 3 paths.
modified by flothefreak
|yeah that's awesome, upload it ^_^.. |
|i uploaded my version. i also improved the mineral formations in main. the pic doesnt show this.|
|ok, thanks you very muchos|
|mh i looked again at it and i think there is one really bad thing:|
i marked the ways u use in this map red, there are just straight to your opponents base and its quite boting i think...
would wish they r connected more i think u should make ramps (double wide as normal) where green is and 3xwider ramps blocked by something (0-mineralblocks or low hp buildings) where blue is...
i'm not such a good map maker, i am talking as a player now :P more ways > more action > fun > hidden tech etc etc
otherwise players take 12 and their corner exp and they only have to defend 1 point at hole map
(cause i dont think there can be a lategame attack threw 815 ramps, means your main is save and only way to corner exp is from the other 815 ramp
modified by Crackling
|Hmmm...thats a good idea, just one porblem: DONT UNBURY MAPS!|
|Deathman about who r u talking? Oo|
|Crackling nah, wouldn't like those changes ;S. But thx anyways for your good painting :D (I have put ramps to 2nd natural but ppl didn't like it, so i put it away).|
|the 2nd expo needs to be defendable. there was such a ramp actually, but it was impossible for TvP or PvZ to hold this exp.|