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Last update for (2)Anciented : 2005, 07, 28 16:22
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
246 (2)Anciented 128*96Listoric1.4final

The map has been rated 54 times and got a total of 75 points
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Listoric
Ok, here is my newest map, just some minutes old.

First of all, i tried to only use Staredit, i may send this map to the BlizzCon Mapcontest, but i'm not sure so far, anyway...

There is a second path in the back of the main, covered with the first mineral (near main) with 24 minerals, and the second one (near the bottom corner) with 8 minerals. The idea was to have a route for the enemy to walk up at your min-only cliff, as well as get yourself a path to walk unseen out of your base (if the T pushes i.e.)

As well as i tried to prevent a Tankpush a bit with the cracked surface near natural.

The long cliff above the natural could be interesting too, because you can put up your units unseen at your own cliff, and walk towards the natrual of your enemy. This might favour T a bit, but as said, you can walk out of your base at the back entry, as well as you just should ,manage, not to have a tank up on your cliff as on almost every map so far.

Then, there are 3 fly-only expansions, but two of them easy killable with groundunits, so that might be interesting as well.

Ok, thats it for now, comments please!
Listoric
ah, and i added a small cliff above the choke. A terran could set a tank up there and force the enemy to leave the choke open till the tank is destroyed. well, just an idea, and i have no idea how that feels ingame. maybe it is too good for T opening the entrance and rushing into wilt vultures, but as said, that should be tested ingame.
Starparty
Well it is symetrical and thus balanced i guess, but i have to agree with "the masses" that symetrical maps tend to be boring. the trend is turning to normal conventional again, atleast on this site.. your ideas are noted though, and they seem good, but perhaps there should be atleast 1 exp each that wern't too easily harrasable..
Listoric
Well, the Fly-Onlys in the corner are easy defendable, even walkable from your main, you just have to cover the choke, i'd say.
Snooky
I personally think that the little high ground stretching toward middle from the center needs to be removed to open up mid a bit more.
panschk
I agree with snooky, but just a little bit. The distances should not be too close, as zvt on 2 player maps is always a bit hard to balance (bunker rush with 9rax can be pretty automatic, as you are sure your opponent is on "close position", and the distances from one natural to another are quite small here)
Thinking of it, maybe you should move the natural closer to the choke, making it easier to defend the fast expo in zvt.

Also, I'm always worried about blocking minerals and AI, although I think it's not too bad here.
Listoric
Ok, i changed the map a bit and had a nice small idea that i added.

First of all, i made the high-ground-to-middle things a bit smaller, as well as the basilika, to have more flanking room. it feels beter now, hope it is enough.

Second, i added two little mineral-patches at the big V-Cliff to both naturals. So you have to unload 2 scvs now, to collect the two mineral-patches to walk to your opponent, or you can simply drop in the middle of the V-Cliff, and kill the gas, or you can drop as it would be a normal cliff. So, you have more possibilities, i like it better how it is now.

The KI thing is the following panschk, i know that the KI has problems with blocking minerals. So, only if you are under your geysire, and send a unit to the enemy base, it may want to walk the blocked way, but as said, only if the unit is below your gas, so that should not make any trouble in a normal game.

The natruals are still on the same spots as before. I want to play some more testgames before i move them towards the choke, by now i haven`t encountered real problems. Maybe you have an replay or something? :)
Listoric
I changed something again.

I had some test games with my roommate, and discovered that the corner expansions are really worthy. I got my SCV down there, built a CC, built 3 more SCVs to remove the minerals, and then, well.. yes, i wished to slide my scvs down to the new expansions, and i couldn't, because it was a fly-only :doh:. And that felt BAD. So i decided to make them accessable with a ramp. So it`s like a second natrual expansion.

And i decided to change the small cliff at the Choke of the main base, and added a small path to it, to give people a better chance of unblocking the ramp.

Better that way?
Starparty
What if you simply mirrored 1 of the bases to make it corner vs corner instead? :) like flipping 1 side.. could be worth a try to see how it looks, though you definitely would be getting min block troubles
Listoric
I already thought about flipping one side because of what you've said earlier, regarding "symmetrical maps = boring". But as you said, there would be problems with pathfinding then, but i'm already on it to make it corner vs corner somehow.
Starparty
You could make that blocking route lead nowhere but to travel up to the opponent cliff? It would mean there is no additional route ofcourse, but it might open up other interesting features..
Listoric
Sounds good yeah. Maybe you want to edit this map? Like "Listoric & Starparty" ? :) Just a thought ;)
Starparty
Sure, i can look into it tonight if i can
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