|Well I'm happy I made a new map - finally :)|
Here I just wanted to make a solid map without the craziness of neutrals, mineral blocks, side ramps. Get back to the essence of map making :P As you can see, there is theme: a temple in the center where a road of ruins leads to - essentially the battlefield. There are lines of jungle/trees/bushes that divide the battlefield into basically sections. I guess a good player could use that to their advantage.
THe mineral count is 8/6/6 - standard yet low since there is basically a free mineral only.
I added wide ramps at the mineral onlies so that there could be options for players defensively and offensively.
|I orignally wanted this map to have mains that were at 12/3/6/9 but i got frustrated with how the mineral onlies were squeezed into the map. there just wasnt enuff room to do it. If anyone can pull it off then u are bwmn god :)|
|Gosu deco, solid map.|
Accomplished your goal pretty well. Its really nice eye candy.
|come on, you are NastyMarine! no need to inverted ramps at NE(blue main)|
beaufiul map, you are the only person who can make a like-python map, completely different to python! haven't seen a map with a structure like this, but look like you can liftoff barrax/factries from red and blue minonlies to teal and purple mains respectively.
maybe teal should me moved north and putple to the south, so the 4 lakes are the same.
the Center looks like... a NatyMarine's Center. i remembered free minonlies were P>Z like Blade Storm's.
mains and natural are hard to muta-harras, only minonlies vulnerable to mutalisk, but protoss can build lots of cannons there.
i find teal ramp in a wrong position, maybe it's my imagination, but... will you marry me NastyMarine?
modified by Testbug
|It's legal in Massachusetts.|
|Dude, it's the worst map for terran i've ever seen, huge middle + inbuildable. = gg no re. o_o|
|hm, the pic looks awesome, that is for sure.|
the natural however seems very open, i dont know how this works together with that kind of center (hard to say how these seperations work. but the idea behind it is so great, loving it! that treedividing has incredible style =] ).
i dont like the expo layout, as there are none ^_^ besides the very turtle-style expansions (once you get nat, you get minonly for free). i dont see real fight about expansions :<
i like this map, though because of the gosu center (from looks and the idea with that trees). however, i dont think gameplay and balance are decent enough for competitive play (i could be wrong, though).
|@Testbug: i do|
|I like the mineral-only in the hill right next to the nat. The trees are interesting but I don't think there are enough of them to affect game play. Terran may have problems in the wide open unbuildable center.|
|Very, very open...|
Nothing new or special.
Just a standard map, but without a center...
Did you make the map only for the look? Yeah, its a nice picture, thx :)
|I like the middle...and that's about it, I'm afraid.|
|looks are pretty incredible:)|
I miss some neutral epansion to fight for, especially in 2on2-games. Could play pretty static.
|Map is kinda like gaema meets python. THe center is very open, but the trees do make it not quite as open. The min onlys kinda just really help protoss. The nats are kinda gay for zvt, basicly it's hard to defend every side with your first or second sunk, like you have to guard the ramp, the hatch, and the path around to the back. If you split them apart, it's easy to pick off 1 sunk and run past whatever else there is. The worst thing for zvt is the lack of an ovy spot. You can kill two birds with one rock if you make (I'll gmc 1 example) an addition to the min only cliff, which tightens the nat opening a bit and can allow room for your ovy (this'll help p vs z too). I'd say it's fine for tvp considering luna and python's tvp statistics, but the big difference between these three maps is that in this one the min onlys are really close by, which really helps protoss. It won't have the same balance as gaema since there's no gay 2nd path to the min only. However, the trees might really help a push, I dunno =/ I'm guessing this map is z=p ish, t>z, p>t, but zvp could go either way, and I could be just wrong about the pvt. But I'm pretty confident it'll play t>z. With my suggestion with the cliff thing, zvt will be better, possibly more or less balanced, though I doubt it ;) pvz wil be better, and still probably fairly balanced.|
I don't really like how the nat gas blocks the ramp to the min only, especially at red/blue. With the current formations, I however don't know how you'd fix that. I don't think the min onlys need to be this big -.-
Honestly, the map is pretty ugly and poorly decorated :(
Nasty thinks he is korean again :(
|way to rain on my parade :P|
|Nasty has nab decoration in the mains, do you want to make the deco for you? ;D |
modified by ProTosS4EveR
|Should I place ramps for the mineral onlies facing the middle? I could also have one 815 ramp facing the nat. I think that could add some fun tactical value?|
|No, don't. You'll make zvt even harder lol|
|nab = n00b ;D|
I tought about placing the min only ramps to the center too. But if you place the nat closer to the ramp and make a 2nd entrance from the center for the minonly, can it work?
|yea this map looks very nice, but seems like its suffering from sattarchasm Z vs Anything imbalance :P Except worse ^^|
|although i have an idea that could make this map reeeeally fucking interesting. What if the ramps to 2nat were normal size and blocked with a neutral building with lots of hp like an overlord. Then you implement the high bridges i made in Interception between mainbases and the 2nat of the next base clockwise 2nat :)|
|keep the wide ramps and just have like 3 neutral buildings or whatever. that would be dope if you could make that|
|i agree with ProTosS4EveR, i would never play;|
terran vs protoss
on this map
|python has a t>p record in the proleague, something I wouldn't have expected. Now, this map is more p favouring than python is because of the mineral only placement, but this middle has trees while python does not; I think those trees will significantly change middle battles.|
Someone find sin gaema gowon's tvp statistics, this map will probably play similarly.
|i'll do lnept's idea.|
- Did lnept's idea. Two neutrals blocking ramp usage. T could just cc lift but i guess they wouldnt have full usage of it until dropships or until they break the wall.
- Finished the decoration.
|i guess the wall can help ov placemnt too.|
|Oh, I spose that works. Up for test games if you have time and don't hate me (which effectively removes everyone from bwm to worry about asking for test games, so I can easily keep this commitment :D).|
|How'd the map play?|
|cant really tell. theres a skill difference since i havent played in 2 months.|
what i do kno is the mains are huge. thats confirmed.
|u'd prolly need like 3 or so more games to really see how the maps design plays like. Its a basic layout really so it shouldnt be much to understand it.|
|ok i watched the reps, the center did not loked terran favouring but it may be crackling raping tinny nasty.|
the mains are retarded bigger.
i did never download the map, and this reps show surprises.... main size is a thing you HAVE TO FIX
will need to test if sunken colonies can handle fast marines in that wide choke. i can play Zerg (crackling will rape you again) i'm not good at playing but i know how to build sunken colonies ;)
|yes, mains were sooo huge :D|
i think that maindeco could be better, i didnt have any orientation in my main because everything was just green >.<
you should increase mineralcount at the nat to 8,
so we got 8-8-6.
the minonly isnt free, xelnaga has SOOO much hp and its more like a island but even without gas >.<
i somehow dont understand whats the thing behind making the ramp to the minonly that wide, so it has to be covered with 2 xelnaga Oo
wouldnt it be funny to get a 815-ramp there with only 1 xelnaga on it? :D
the expo would be less "free" (because harder to defend vs drops) but still help t in tvp or tvz a lot because of the fucking wide middle
|or terran can use the borders so it can't be flanked :D|
|maybe water arround, so mains can be muta harrased :D|
|" think that maindeco could be better, i didnt have any orientation in my main because everything was just green >.<" I seriously lol'd. Korean decoration^^|
"so we got 8-8-6" No, Nasty was trying to avoid real high money values, in order to keep it from being a macro-fest -> mass in middle.
|yea i stayed away from the 8/8/6 b/c of the mineral only. Z's will have an advantage i suppose because its a lower mineral quantity but T's and i guess P's will need that mineral only to compenate.|
FUCK the korean deco. :) I guess i could put some more dirt around the mains. depends if i ever get around it.
|could you please resize the mains NastyMarine? :)|
and would it be a bad idea if you place some anti-liftoff 0value mineral fields in the islands?
|please fix the obs version it fucking sucked|
|k thanks, i tried doing a 1;1 Play/Obs game with your map & the obs was so retarded that we all started out all over the map then everyone called me a jack ass|
|c'mon you can call me a jackass but dont do this to ppl who might misunderstand you. even if those ppl are never taking any other opinion.|
|but tk, nightmarjoo and me have a love triangle! :S|
|lol me and tk are friends, he knows I'm just messing around. And everyone knows testbug is messing around, he's never serious^^|
|y can be serious! look:|
|i really like this except for the neutral buildings. deco is perfect. |
|I didn't care for the expo layout, that mineral only is imo too easy to grab =/ I don't really like just getting nat and min only then having to move to another main.|
I haven't yet played zvt or tvz, but I suspect distances might be annoying from main2nat for t when fighting muta harass, and that the nats might be t favouring.
The mains felt fine to me, actually.
I think teal and purple's sls are in the wrong spot. They're on the inside of the main, but red and blue are on the outside. I prefer the red/blue position. The mains would probably feel too big with teal/purple.
The decoration is pretty lazy ;)
|One of the main complaints here seems to be the expo layout, at least going by marjoo.|
Was something like this ever considered?
modified by Excalibur
|You goin thru old maps and touching them up?|
I don't have the execution to do XY rotational on my own, so I'm looking at maps I like and seeing what the general consensus on them was and if they were ever updated based on that. There are a lot of 'dead' maps that could maybe be revived. I contemplated tackling Lexington but I don't think I've got the skills for it. Would really like to see you or Freaky take a crack at it.
|That's cool. Just keep in mind that some of the advice might be outdated, the game has evolved since then, but I think you know this.|
In regards to balance I think a lot of these older maps lack a lot of overlord spots. Some chokes need to be adjusted as well, I think what was considered "safe" or appropriate back then is different now.
Now for this map, I feel it's pretty bland, the space isn't used very well and there's not much going on besides the awkward nat/third area which is supposed to be the novelty of the map (which I don't like, or maybe it's not executed as well as it could be). The bland center is very pretty, but gameplay-wise I think something should be done so that it complements the nat-mineral only area.
edit: as for lexington, I would remake it so that the 3 elevations are used. If a map has a lot of high ground (which in space it's high platform, being the highest elevation on that tileset) I would just make it in a jungle/twilight/desert/ice tileset, and not in space/badlands/ash. Or just introduce some low platform. This would give me more options with the highest elevation (adding walls and stuff). Having 3 elevations is usually > 2 elevation in my book, especially with a concept like that.
modified by JungleTerrain