| This map goes to the "Defenders of Gaia Clan" map competition. It is a reprise of the two battlefield theme I explored in earlier maps like Janus and Oracular Visions but here they are not connected in the middle. I borrowed the "creep behind the main's minerals" theme from PsycoTemplar's map "Waiting to Panic". Hopefully here with longer distances a skilled Terran will be able to counter a sunken rush. |
The nat is a high ground minonly with somewhat more space than the main. The main's geysers are 2500 each. Most the expos are exposed in one way or another or blocked by a creep colony with the exception of the central island expo. The area around the mains is tight but further out there is room for flanking in the main causeways. However, there are also corridors for going around and attacking from behind.
The map should give rise to interesting situations as the players must decide in which direction to send their land armies and scout for the whereabouts of the other player's units. There is also room for a lot of proxy building strategies.
Please let me know how I can improve the map. If you play it I would appreciate if you can upload any replays. Thanks!
|the map has something to it imo.|
but reminds of the current "let's just put loads of weird stuff together"-promaps
|Reminds you of a Pro-map?????|
Oh Flo you just made my day, I love you!
: ^ )
|it has a unique layout. but i dont like how you decorated it. Some parts of the map seem sloppy. i agree with flo.|
no lancet he is referring to your deco style :o
|Have fun PvZ on this one.|
|Nasty, promaps are sloppy in their deco style? Anyway, can you be more specific so I can improve it a bit? Maybe you can point to aspects of some maps in the database to let me know exactly what you have in mind. Thanks.|
Boongee you think there is an imbalance? Can you be more specific? Thanks.
|yea older promaps didnt have great deco. At least for our standards. Just cuz its a pro map doesnt mean it has great execution - duh :D|
|Unflankable, insanely long distances, no base room.|
|Have fun Z>P on this one.|
Is this specific enough?
modified by LGI
|have fun in all matchups on this one! merry christmas!|
let's be all friends! =) =) =) =) =)
|Well, thanks for all your comments and yes, let's be friends!|
A few things:
As I stated abovethe long distances are necessary to give time for Terran (and perhaps toss) to counter the "Waiting to Panic" sunken rush. There is a lot of base room if you use the space of the minonly nat and you can also build towards the outside. Finally, towards the SW and NE there is plenty of room to flank and side corridors for ambushes. Notice also the unbuildable rocky terrain in these sections and even the "bypass" corridor next to the expo right in front of the main.
As to Z>P please notice that if zerg goes for FE to the nearest gas expo the nat will not "defend" the main, a weakness that toss can exploit. Also notice that there are many high places from which a templar can psionic storm workers not to mention from behind the main's mineral wall.
As to deco, sigh, all I can say is I tried to blend in all types of terrain (dirt, mud, grass, rocks etc) and added lot's of doodads to create the desired effect.
I really worked on this map, went through many versions and played it against the comp a dozen times or so to improve it. I am happy with the final effect but welcome any comments to make it better.
|As for Z>P i wouldn't even need gas to win vs toss... Maybe only for fast lings, nothing more...|
|Really? Win a game against toss using only speed-lings? No lurks, hydras or mutas? No drops? Wow!|
|U serious LGI? theres an inbase expo basically due to the 2 gas main. obviously you cannon on this map, speedlings wont do shit|
|ZvP on this map I see the Zerg playing conventionally, 12-hatching to the in-base min-only, sunkening the main, and then just going hydralurk or mutaling or whatever he wants while sunkening up behind the Protoss's minerals. Is there anything Protoss can really do to counter both that and the Zerg's main army?|
|Lancet, you dont know me much, but i could take that as a dare n try my best to achieve it !_! lol|
and... to achieve the dare, id still rather play BB over this :P
|OK, let me explain the nature of the mineral wall on the mains. It has illegal doodads behind it (StarParty's idea to fix pathing implemented by PsychoTemplar in his map "Waiting to Panic"), thus the area of the main is effectively "isolated" from the area behind the mineral wall. Just merely placing a ranged unit (lurks, sunken, cannons, tanks, templars, goons, vultures, marines etc) will do nothing. The only way to target the units on the other side of the mineral line is to have a unit within the main "spotting" for you (this will lift the fog of war). This can be a conventional unit or a detector like the overlord, observer or radar sweep.|
PsychoTemplar demonstrated how Toss can counter a sunken rush in the map "Waiting to Panic" which has shorter distances. Place one or two cannons next to the mineral line and then send units to the other side. This should be easier here with the longer distances that zerg has to cover to support the rush.
modified by Lancet
|Just give me a toss player and stfu, really! So naive... ffs...|
|I was just explaining how the mineral line here is different from "normal" mineral lines and also how the "sunken problem" was dealt with by toss in "Waiting to Panic". But don't take my word for it, watch the replays. If anything I was concerned about Terran.|
As to being naive, maybe, but if I were zerg I would never play agaisnt toss with lings only. I mean, really, what will you do if toss goes sairs destroys your overlords and then floods you with DTs? I have seen replays of gosu players being defeated by a variation of that strategy even using hydras.
|People have focused too much on Z vs P and not on Z vs T. What I am hoping is that in this map, as opposed to Waiting to Panic the loger distance could give Terran time for an effective counter to the sunken rush.|
As it is now I can get a drone into position in 1 min 47 sec (althoug it can arrive earlier), have it morphed into a creep colony by 2 min 1 sec, into a sunken by 2 min 46 sec and the first overlord arrives to the area by 2 min 53 sec after which the sunken starts attacking. Support lings can arrive by 3 min 30 sec.
This is an improvement over Waiting to Panic but I don't know if it is enough. The timing for the overlord involves transit over the minonly, which can make it vulnerable to marine fire. So if the overlord detours a little it will take even longer for the sunken to start attacking. Also the first marine can be made as early as 2 min 20 sec into the game so it seems to me that the SCV would be the unit to stop the "sunken strategy" or delay it at first at least.
So I need feedback here. I want to keep the creep behind the main as an advantage for zerg but I want to give Terran a fighting chance, is this enough or should I do more?
For example an SCV from the time it is sent behind the mineral line to attack the neutral creep colony to the time it destroys it, is 1 min 20 sec (2 SCVs would do it faster). Without creep the sunken cannot be built. I could, for example limit the number of creep colonies behind the main to one. I could also move some minerals further into the main so the area around say half of the mineral clumps will not be attackable by the sunken.
PsychoTemplar, where are you?
|Why are you obsessed with a sunk rush? There's so many expos I can take for free cuz of the gigantic distances.|
I think the map will have to play like a super macro island. It's just kinda terrible as a ground map.
|yea why dont you just close off the mains and make this island? then it would be an ok map|
|A sunk rush IS an important factor to consider regardless of the expo layout. Also, the long distances are part of the concept, you comit your troops in the wrong direction too far and it is difficult to get them back in time, making it an island map would defeat the concept.|
However, I have finally come up with a solution (but for some reason the small picture does not display it well, you have to click on it and see the big picture, LOL!). I have moved the creep back. Now if zerg wants to do a sunken rush they will need to build one creep colony, wait for the creep to ooze closer to the mineral line and then build another and morph it into a sunken. This should give enough time for terran to come up with an acceptable defense.
Notice that this opens up the possibility for toss to perform a cannon rush too! However, toss would need to get a sair or an observer and this takes time or get units into the mains to spot for the cannons and have them survive.
Oops, sorry, this is the right picture.
modified by Lancet
|OK, final edits before sending it off. Pushed the creep back a little further and made the high ground minonly strech into the back a bit more. Any overlord trying to traverse the air space of the minonly will be very vulnerable to marine fire. Avoiding it will greatly delay detection for the rush.|
|Damn, no! There is a tree doodad that interferes with unit movement.|
: ^ (
It's too late I will remove that tomorrow.
|Oh I get it... Round Lake! HAHA!|