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Last update for (2)The Sundeligt 0.94.1 : 2007, 12, 18 07:05
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2658 (2)The Sundeligt 0.94.1 96*128LML0.3betaground

The map has been rated 48 times and got a total of 15 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


LML
still kinda basic and undecorated, but that's not the point, I am going for balance first. Doesn't give me much if I decorate 2hours and then remake it and delete all this work, would be wasted time;o

in the middle only small units can pass.

so any suggestions for balancing, etc. ?!

thx in advance
modified by LML
Crackling
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LML
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LGI
Dude, you have to work out on your older maps, until you make them perfect, not just spam with those bullshits...

P.S. The map has a great concept, but it has to be pimped from the mains to the rest...
modified by LGI
ptar
but crackling is kinda right :)

I can't help you that much. Try to use some more inovative things as decoration. You always just one-click with an different tile. In this map for example look at the water in the middle, or the crushed rock at the 5 and 11 o clock expasion.

Maybe start with smaller maps.
LML
as I said twice now already, don't tell me about the decoration since I will overwork that all, this deco is alpha!

so tell me more about the balancing and concept, instead of telling again and again that it looks so awfull, thx.


modified by LML
ptar
I didn't meant this map with shitty deco. I meant ALL your maps, and i can promise you, when deco is finished it'll be not very good. As i said before, and can't tell you something about the balance.
LML
well, I am not that good at deco, that's true. But a map isn't made for the look, but for playing it on a balanced level, where all mu's are fair.
and tbh, those maps spammed all over with doodads, are not good decorated aswell, they are just spammed and may block units if you ever play one of those maps.


modified by LML
FateD
Hmm, hey man :D

Idk how, but unlike any1 here, i think its not bad :O I like it lol

Only thing that (to my opinion) is that middle isnt open enough :O

Like if you took out the water, change a couple things around mid, maybe take the 2 mins only elsewhere or into the voids !! (delete) It would be coo :D
modified by FateD
LML
well, the middle if made for small units, and not for fighting;)
watch the sideways, they are both fat enough to take a PvT battle I guess. The middle if as in some other maps......
peaks got it, bluestorm, loki, blitz x, u know?
Crackling
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LML
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Crackling
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Lancet
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Excalibur
I actually think something can be done with this one.
With your permission LML, id like to play around with it a bit, a sort of pimping, but with my lesser skills. =/
Sworn.
P contains T?!...
i like the map...BUT a terran should be able to block e.g. his main by building depots..but in ur version u cant build something there..and also make plz to entrances to the nat...kick this "lake" out and build an additional ramp
Nivart
I dont make maps or play anymore, but i like to check out this site sometimes and i was just dissapointed in the bad attitude in the comments on this map, so i had to say something.. especially to crackling.

To crackling,
Seriously get over yourself. Who are you to give this kind of critique to him? You have 5 maps under your account and most of them are pimped by a way better mapmaker. Just look at the maps which you made just by yourself, they look just as bad as LML's maps if not even worse. At least he has a will to produce somthing and not endlessly promote himself. Stop talking like this and make some good maps by yourself instead.. you will feel way better, i promise.

Even though i dont contribute to this site anymore i hope some of the friendly good old days could be brought back.

best regards
Nightmarjoo
Nivart I think the reason LML is getting a bad reception here is because he's generally an asshole who thinks he knows best when he doesn't.

Lancet, your criticism of the tight middle path is retarded.

The main and nat shape/layout could use some improvement. It's awkward; look at pro maps for a better shape. Their chokes also are bad. I dislike the SE/NW gas expos; if you look at baekdu, those expos work because they have two very seperate paths going to them, ie you can't just turtle in front of it for free gas.

I think that though some parts of the map are ok, it's only because they were copied from Baekdu, a good map. Then, some of the map's gameplay problems also arise from the things from baekdu -.-
LML
well, that a P contains a T.. I doubt this. I am P myself and I know how easy it is to break out as a T if you got at least some skill ..... (ya, a flying building/scan and tanks do ALOT!)

also you can still block the entrace, I've tested this ofc, but I didn't want to T to be able to block with just 1 rax, so he needs at least 2supply's and 1rax now, currently.

And about the part of the middle... yeah, but you know, this is the will in this. I want the ppl to force to tell their units the way. just look at maps as BlueStorm, BlitzX, Loki, and others, which got this small thing. You are forced to send tell your "fater" units the path to walk, also you got 2ways to go (as on Peaks) and not only 1 so the opponent can always wait for you (as on maps like BlueStorm, BlitzX).
LML
"Nivart I think the reason LML is getting a bad reception here is because he's generally an asshole who thinks he knows best when he doesn't."

made me laugh since I am not playing god in any ways, ever. I just say what I think and tell no1 that this is right and evrything other ppl say is wrong.

also....

"copied from Baekdu, a good map. Then, some of the map's gameplay problems also arise from the things from baekdu -.-"

I didn't copy anything I made this all by my own. And there were made so many things that you could go for nearly evry map and say that there is something copied .......
LML
"I actually think something can be done with this one.
With your permission LML, id like to play around with it a bit, a sort of pimping, but with my lesser skills. =/"

sure.
Crackling
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Crackling
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LML
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Nivart
"Nivart I think the reason LML is getting a bad reception here is because he's generally an asshole who thinks he knows best when he doesn't."

This might be true, never questioned that. But it's not reason enoguh for crackling to have rage attacks like a 13 yearold.
For me these kind of things feels really out of place in a site with great ppl that generally produces really nice quality maps.

well, just my thought

/Travin
Nightmarjoo
LOL I didn't realize Nivart was Travin backwards.

LML, if you're saying map is t>p then you should try pvting on baekdu. You say none of this is copied from baekdu, but that's an obvious lie; you don't just coincidentally copy half a map you know of "accidentally" lol.
lnept
----------------------------------------
if your gay you posted above that line. stop being gay.
Lancet
Retarded? Not as far as I am concerned. I don't like that concept of big vs small unit separation. I think that the energy wasted in just keeping the pathing-messing issue in mind is not compensated for by the concept. Id rather see a large central valley for example with connections to the other battlefields at the ends or two unconnected central valleys.

As to TvP, the main and nat are on low ground with a single ramp to an open high ground, that is traditionally considered to be P > T.
LML
well, that's ok, if T contains you it is easier to breake out, tho.
FateD
lol btw LML, i hate all the maps u mentioned, but thats prolly just me XD lol

I think this 1 isnt really like those u mentionned in a way bc of how its not too open, unlike baekdu to me, or too hard to send units, like blitz, but its more like you cant flank using mid much... like, in pvt, youll alwais end up camping the 3 ramps, porlly goings carrs or arbs or w-e, and just sit there until u either win, or get breached n lose :o
modified by FateD
LML
uh, I rly don't guess so. Cuz there are too different kind of players. Cheesers, then normal but defensive players and normal but aggresive players.
uC.MorroW
totally wrong LML,
there are strategies thats "cheese" or "defensive" and so on.
a good player can play them all, for example me :)

and about this map,
i think expands 2 and 8 o' clock should be sunken ground instead of high dirt. taking part of different heights like this map it should be cool with low ground too :)

and expand 2 clock should have better gas placement (remember when its under u often need 4 and its making me metally ill)
modified by uC.MorroW
LML
ofc, I know it's possible to play them all, I am not a newb;)
but there are still differences, look at some players... Nal_rA i.e. mostly cheesed;) and there are some rly defensive players while others harrass like hell (Reach)
I just mentioned this to show that this won't be played always the same... no map does!

and well, I think it is better if those expo's are on highground due to some defending rates. It is easier to defend a highground expo.
LML
*updated*

- made the nat bigger by removing the water, but adding a few doodads instead (not taking as much space)
- fixed some gas bug
- added doodads and edited the terrain
- edited the main entrance so, that you can make a good block with T (1rax 2supply's) but! the trick is to make the block on the outside of the main not inside, there you would need 3supply's
LML
also played some PvT on this map with some friend. But since his T is too low even when I played rly bad start, I wasn't able to see the real use of the map. But what was able to see that the 2 and 8 expo's were taken instead of the 10 and 5 epox's.
tho, those 2 and 8 expo's are tankable ez, I had to find out:/ (at least the gas) so I will put it on the other site, tho.
LML
*Updated*

- the nat's gas shouldn't be in any way tankable now
- the gas of the 2/8 expo's isn't tankable anymore
- made the minsonly expansion in the middle to a gas expansion
Nivart
hmm, im not going to play this. but you should try to work on the decoration if you are serious about this map
that is, you need to blend the different type of grounds so they look more smooth
and you need to place more doodad and better
also those big cliffs looks just too big and boring to me right now
and dont put the cervices in straight line like that, its not space platform tileset so you need to make it look natrual

.. for me this map is just too cluttred with things in the middle and too empty on the outskirts. i think it would look nicer if you balanced it better.

also im not a friend of those kind of ramps that you are using, but thats my problem
LML
well, I found those ramps on bmwn and since there were no other reversed ramps I used those.

And I am not the best in decoration tbh. I am trying my best tho, but in the end it won't be that impressive, mostly.
LGI
Your skills on execution, could be better, but atm your map looks perfectly natural, imo. So no need of better deco... It's better like this, then put some hundreds of doodads ON THE PATH, like some other mappers here...

EDIT: You have much room to think of a better spot for the min only... Also it's "on the way" and won't be nice for big armies to pass...
modified by LGI
LML
yeah, ingame it looks rly natural, the pic looks always a bit dif.
And I've already thought about the mins-only and where to put it, but I didn't find a good resolution, yet.
LGI
Something like this.

Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

Ofc, it can be done a lot more better then this, i am at work atm, and i can't afford to stay in front of StarEdit too long :)
LML
hm, this would make it too narrow, because the sites are the battlefields, and imaging PvT ... you need flankroom to run into those tanks;o
Testbug
LGI is right, 3 and 9 o'clock minonlies have to be removed, maybe can go to the sides, so it doesn't cause path isue.

the plateaus are too empty, maybe you can add some basilica with some blue storm's inverted ramps? or make the corner expos islands or semi-islands?

2 and 8 expos whould have a normal sized ramps, like baekdu's and longinus's so zerg can defend a 3rd gass vs terran with only 2 lurkers in the ramp.
LML
*Updated*

- the 2/8 expo's got a smaller intrance for easier defence in certain mu's (may make it a lil bit bigger but not as big as b4)
- The 5/11 expo's became island expansions
- The ways were made a lil bit bigger
- the mins-only got replaced
LGI
You can get enough flank room if you take more terrain from the center. You don't need the unused water and shitz there.. Use all your space on the map, and everything will be fine.

Just look at the picture i give you. I've took some of the center. I can take more, but as i said, i was at work and didn't have the time to make the battlefield wider.

Anyway i really like my idea. The expand spot is a really good strategy point on the map...
LML
well, I already took some space from the middle, not too much, but still some.
And those mins-only expos already got some new place, not blocking.
LML
hm.. just watch how much space it has now, more than enough to block. Also there are some ppl saying that T > Z at the nat ramp:/
need to test that, tho;O
LGI
Ok, i can't help you anymore...
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