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Last update for (4)Troy1.0 : 2009, 08, 15 02:36
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2749 (4)Troy1.0 128*128Earthattack (Kim-Eung-Seo)2.3leaguehybrid

The map has been rated 48 times and got a total of 110 points
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Melee

Observer

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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


PsychoTemplar
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"Description: A regular isle/land map is a map that starts off as an island, then becomes land by destroying neutral buildings (Arkanoid). This reversed isle/land map does the opposite. The entrance from your main to your island is semi-blocked by two assimilators. The assimilators, however, are far enough from each other that even ultralisks can pass through. However, if you break the assimilators, the path becomes more narrow and only ghosts can pass through."
modified by PsychoTemplar
Crimson)S(hadow
map is very very interesting....would suck for terran if u build ur facts and tanks and stuff then all a sudden P takes out the assimilator and ur entire army stuck at back, or a 6ling to take out the assimilator and leave ur rine force stuck in base
HypersonicEspo
What how do they make path smaller.
Crimson)S(hadow
you don't know? building an assimilator on a gas makes the space around the gas passable... u'd know if u played fastest
Crimson)S(hadow
but i guess u can always remake the assimilator
Mapghost
can you fix the author name?

Kim-Eung-Seo.
ScoutWBF
Wow, what a concept! I'll steal the idea of the center design! :D
Prezes83
Expo placement same like on Geometry but I like it (maybe not for long, I play Terran).
uC.MorroW
better than geometry
Lancet
Fantastic idea! So one possible strategy is to destroy your enemy's assimilator to wall his large units in. Do you have to destroy both?
spinesheath
Destroying one will probably only block ultras and tanks/goons etc. HTs, Hyds, Zeals, Rines should be fine.
Nightmarjoo
nvm
modified by Nightmarjoo
l[StaR]Blade
y the path becomes more narrow when u destroy the assis? sry i dont understand -_-
Nightmarjoo
Geysers are wider than assimilators.
Crimson)S(hadow
BUT KEEP IN MIND U CAN ALWAYS REBUILD ASSIMILATORS

Wrong
modified by PsychoTemplar
neobowman
Can you make the path larger onyl with assimilaters or can you use refineries and extractors too?
boongee
Can you mine those geysers? It's an interesting idea.

It's too bad the Starcraft map editor is so limited -- if Blizzard gave us a powerful one, we wouldn't be surprised by innovations like these.
WHiTeSTRiPeS-
i just now realized how sexy this map is
mapghost
Author said that player can't rebuild on gayser.
Crimson)S(hadow
maybe the gases are depleted.. and yes, extractors and refineries work too

Also probably wrong.
modified by PsychoTemplar

i've tested refineries and extractors work.......
modified by Crimson)S(hadow
Mapghost
http://www.mapdori.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=free2&no=3873
Nightmarjoo
Mapdori is down at the moment?
Mapghost
Nightmarjoo//well.. rarely, too many traffics make mapdori server down.
modified by Mapghost
Starparty
i kinda like how this is the first innovative idea in like two years mapdori didnt steal from us first.

We should make a R&D forum locked from outside visitors where new ideas was mailed and posted and worked on until finnished. Laso there should be uploading date on the map entries.
ProTosS4EveR
great idea :>
PsychoTemplar
Eeeh, be nice. We get (quality) ramps, null terrain, and this gas thing from them; we can share the 50 or so things with sprites we've messed with (which UMS mappers have known for years, if only we'd ever bother to ask).

"i've tested refineries and extractors work......."
You haven't tested shit because no one but progamers have the map yet. The geysers are placed in such a way that you can't rebuild on them, assim., ref., or ext.. Otherwise Flash would have just built over the geyser's Rumble destroyed for his third expo.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/8536_Flash_vs_Rumble/vod
modified by PsychoTemplar
spinesheath
Do you remember that 64 map on space, where the only ramp was blocked by a vespene geysir? It was mentioned that a zergling will be able to pass the bridge if you built an extractor.
I am pretty sure back then I was fooling around with the very same idea that this map utilizes. I don't know if I posted about it, though, and since I never had a full concept, I never made a map out of it.

Actually I was thinking about using mines against dark swarm about 1 month before progamers started to use it regularly, too. But since I don't play terran, I never got to test it ;)

Yes, I am serious.
PsychoTemplar
Nobody cares. I was one of the first people to experiment with extended terrain in melee maps, especially backwards ramps (back when everyone said they were too ugly to ever be used). I don't care that nobody knows my name, I'm just glad everyone's using them now.

Fact is these ideas are fairly intuitive and logical. It just takes someone with the drive to perfect them and make them practical.
Crackling
i think for pvz reaver/sair will be to strong here, lets see what progamers play like
flothefreak
yeah, definetly
Grief_Stricken
even after a longer inspection i cannot find anything worthy for such a hype about this map.the concept behind the map isnt new or somehow special,in fact in the bw db are dozens of maps with the same concept - and many with a alot more interesting design than this map has.what's so fancy?the assimilators?i can remember even grig have use them in his maps long time ago,and if i'm not wrong i saw other maps in the db with the same feature.everyone can place some assims on a map - these doesnt means wow,what a improvement.a cheap subtitute for missed creativity.good for weak mappers.

the same for that terrain structure thing in the middle - just rubbish with no special purpose.and in the game it would look probably ugly.i remember i saw once a map pimped by starparty(makyo,if i remember correct)in there he used compound custom terrain for a bridge.that makes sense.but this here - all the torture to become unbuildable walkable terrain ?!? rocky ground or crags can do the same.oh,yeah the decoration factor -,- ...sry,but in my opinion this structure kill the entire natural flow thru the map.

executionwise it's pretty average,not really bad but far away from a higher level.the terrain decoration is nothing special or unique at all,actually.resources should be better placed,at least in the bottom mains - nearer to the edges of the map; at this time they taking too much buildable space inside the mains.

and by all the pain to have a symmetric map,even with the reversed ramps,the map is still not entirely balanced so long the middle chokes are closer to the bottom players.and with the large/open middle a good map just for mobile races like z/p.also a predominant macro map with no islands and just one path - the middle.

if i have to give this map a note it would be 5 - because it is the usual plain fair,korean style of course
spinesheath
Errm, Grief, could you by any chance have missed the fact that the assimilators act as a path of variable width?

There are exactly 0 maps with the same concept in the dldb.

@PsychoTemplar: Yeah I know that nobody cares. I don't really care as well. I just said that Mapdori is not that much ahead of us regading innovation with this map as it might seem.
flothefreak
actually, this idea WAS born here a long time ago. none used it in a map, though.
Crackling
uuuuuuhmmmmmmmm actually those things in the middle are fully walkable +.~ watch the vods for proof:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DQwmP-09_-4

again, i want to point out that reaversair will be imba vs z on this map -.-
Crimson)S(hadow
these available for DL yet?
Starparty
my point was that blizzard will most definitelly use mapdori to create a few sc2 base maps, which sucks when the talent originates in many cases from here. Not saying they suck in anyway, just saying we are equal to the very very least and we deserve some credit for what we do when the time comes when it will actually matter.
Starparty
and grief, i dont agree. its the same as saying that anyone could put small ramps in 815. The entire point is having a standard map with a unique feature. Not a map cluttered with various bullshit. The problem with many experimental maps around here is that many of the custom ideas thrown into them are just random and serve no obvious purpose than to try to be as weird and different as possible. But with maps like these, those special features get the center attention and can by them self change the cause of the game by someone doing a sweet move. thats good tv.
Nightmarjoo
grief you're retarded
Testbug
wait.
you can't rebuild the asimilators because they are placed in an ilegal place.

your grid will tell your asimilator can be builded in some green and some in red because where is it placed.

so, if your oponent kills tghe asimilator, you get in an island, and he can take the whole map :)
PsychoTemplar
I looked at the map in the editor, he put unbuildable tiles underneath the assimilator sprites, so that's why you can't rebuild on them.
LGI
Are those in the middle the same?

http://www.panschk.de/mappage/butterflies02.jpg
Grief_Stricken
@spinesheat: no u can trust me, but is this really such a remarkable improvement?and support this feature a completely new game feeling?if your answer is positive in both cases i think it is very easy to make you happy.and about the concept - there are endless maps with that concept in the db.i think starparty seconds me when he said - the entire point is having a standard map with a unique feature.for me this doesnt change too much the map itself.it's not revolutionary.revolutionary was the use larger ramps in maps.this feature is nothing new,i saw other maps with entraces/pathes blocked by temples,normal buildings,resources,spells etc.if these maps have 100% the same configuration like this map i dont remember - and honestly i dont care because such features are just a compesation for a misssed creativity.

@starparty: u dont need to agree with me.so long you behave mature and try to persuade me with arguments.but - come on - u skating with your arguments on very thin ice.-the entire point is to having a standard map with a unique feature.not a map cluttered with various bullshit.- so this is the big bang,a standard map cluttered with one bullshit.but bullshit remains bullshit,think about.you also say -this is good tv-.i would say more a cheesy show.it not my taste but for those who watching big brother i suppose they will like it.

@lgi: yes

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

i have looked in the editor too and now i can reconfirm my first opinion about these structures in the middle.they doesnt looking good.
modified by Testbug
SiaBBo
I like this cuz if you destroy assimilators u cant walk there anymore. So then it is airmap. ;o
spinesheath
Actually I should only second Nightmarjoo...

What makes larger ramps more revolutionary than paths of variable size?
"Ramps" of various sizes can easily be done by placing walkable highground and lowground tiles next to each other. Making it look good is merely cosmetical.
The only difference between a wide choke from lowground to lowground and a large ramp is the 70% hit chance. This doesn't allow for such refined strategies as we might (dunno if we will) see here. It only leads to players trying to always have the position at the top of the ramp.

The concept of this map is NOT the standard layout. It is a 815-like concept which is based on blocking some units but letting others pass. You could count maps such as BlitzX to these. This map is different though, since the paths can be made smaller during game.

This feature indeed does change the whole game - and I won't bother trying to convince you of that. I have better things to do.

It takes a whole lot of creativity to actually come up with this concept of placing 2 assims in this way and to use it in a map. Whether it was the creativity of the map creator or someone else's is another question.

And I am saying all this WITHOUT saying that I like or dislike this map. Your own problem if you interpret it differntly.

I haven't seen the map ingame, but I can agree with you in this single point: The middle (probably) looks bad.


Now my opinon on the map: The assims could be used better. Placing them right behind some ramps eliminates makes them fairly useless. If there was more room on both sides of these assims we probably could see better moves.
modified by spinesheath
Lancet
I tried it, it's cool! Those structures in the center are totally walkable but unbuildable so what you have is a wide open center. I am concerned though that toss or zerg will just rush terran destroy one of the assimilators and wall him in. What do you guys think about that?
SiaBBo
You have to destroy both assimilators.
Lancet
No, if you destroy just one of the assimilators vultures, tanks and goliaths will not be able to get through. You can float buildings to the other side but that is slower.
SiaBBo
Ah, ok. But if you destroy both only ghosts can go there. :)
PsychoTemplar
"I tried it, it's cool! Those structures in the center are totally walkable but unbuildable so what you have is a wide open center. I am concerned though that toss or zerg will just rush terran destroy one of the assimilators and wall him in. What do you guys think about that?"

I think Marines have range.
spinesheath
Zerglings should fit through, too, I guess? Also: Scarabs.

Anyways, as z I would probably always try to lock in my opponent and watch out for drops of course.
I expect a high fe rate for t and p to counter this.
Lancet
Yeah, marines have range but my point is: in this map if you are toss it is to your advantage to invest resources in destroying the assimlator (say zeal rush). If you succeed none of the terran heavy units can get out.
neobowman
It seems zerglings are larger horizontally than ghosts. They can't get through.
SiaBBo
So terran have to block like that zealots cant destroy assimilators ^^. Have to destroy supply depot first. LoL. But remember if enemy come destroy those assimilators he have to make drops too. I don't think many protoss player go destroy assimilators.
Nightmarjoo
k let's see ghosts used for conventional purposes now :)
spinesheath
Yeah sure, 150 ghost off 1 base and go!
Beater
getting walled in by a rush isn't that likely. Terran has plenty of ways to fight that off using the assimilators to their advantage. I'd be more worried about muta harrass.
ludamad
Anyone have an unprotected file of the reverse ramps they used? They look decent.
PsychoTemplar
The ob version is unprotected.

"getting walled in by a rush isn't that likely. Terran has plenty of ways to fight that off using the assimilators to their advantage. I'd be more worried about muta harrass."

Assims have 1500 health. Destroy two is the equivalent of 3000 damage. If a Zerg can do that, he might as well kill 3 Barracks, and win the game anyway.
SiaBBo
Imba! In obs version at 5 o'clock in the island there are only 5 mineral fields. Look other. Z0MG
MorroW
when u kill a neutral assimilator, it will become a geyser with 5k gas then?, i think it would favour zerg tvz
Nightmarjoo
How many times have people already said YOU CANNOT REBUILD ON THE GEYSERS wow.
Lancet
Not two, only one is needed and toss can probably pull that off with zeals.
Dumpling
Terran has more chance of destroying the assims and trapping a Toss. u can just build a bunk in front of the assims.
Nightmarjoo
lol you can't target with bunkers, they autotarget, and won't target the assimilaters because they are neutral -_-
iV-ViRaL
Protecting Melee Maps is utterly pointless, I just unprotected this in like 3 seconds, just don't bother next time.
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