broodwarmaps.net banner

BWMN Time
08/08/2022
09:03
News
new account
list users
Login:
name:
:PW.:
Replays
Map DB
ICCup
Map Access
New map
Edit map
 


Back to "league" maps.   Show all maps.
Last update for (3)Demons Forest : 2009, 09, 03 11:03
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2750 (3)Demons Forest 128*128Str18-02 (Woo Sang-hui)0.9leagueground

The map has been rated 69 times and got a total of 64 points
<<>>
Download
Melee

Observer

You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


PsychoTemplar
Download Now Available

"Description: The map was inspired from the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, a battle when the Roman army is crushed by German tribesmen led by Arminius, who used the harsh terrain to set traps.

The map has large areas of "forests", designed to hinder the player's vision and provide a much higher miss rate, demanding alternate strategies and multiple mini battles rather than large-scale battles."
modified by PsychoTemplar
Crimson)S(hadow
i wonder if large units are passable?
ScoutWBF
Those fuckers stole my idea again! How many Doodads did they place that the trees are not cut off?
Mapghost
ScoutWBF//
unfortunately, korean mappers used it 2~3 years ago..

trees are cut off, of course. I tested it with author 2 weeks ago.



LGI
The "cut" trees is when you have placed doodads in SE, and then open it in StarForge or SCMDraft, do some tileset shits, save it, and then open it in SE again.

Well those were my situations...
modified by LGI
ScoutWBF
But then the map will look really weird if all the trees are cut off Oo I'll have to see it myself D:
LGI
@Mapghost, can you give us download links to test some things on both this map and (4)Troy?
Mapghost
LGI

Sorry, the map which i have is test version, so I must protect it(I promised). so i don't have final version of them.

Ongamenet will give us maps when they starts Starleague :)
LGI
I understand. Thank you.
uC.MorroW
cant download
ptar
Read the first post pls. Map isn't avalible yet. :)
Lancet
Tree doodads consume sprites, if you place too many (>200) they will be "cut out".
ProTosS4EveR
reminds me your maps lancet
testbug
best 3 players map since OUTBURST!!!!!
...red is closer to backdoor? :S
Crimson)S(hadow
omg i want demon forest and troy alrdy
NastyMarine
i swear we've been doing these types of maps for a long fucking time. I think we have a bunch of maps that can match the quality of these maps that korea presents for their leagues.
flothefreak
and the idea was already on one of desade's map, even though he had intended it as unpassable woods in the first place.
Nightmarjoo
Don't you listen to M# when he talks to us? Hasn't he said atleast once that korean mappers do visit this site, and like the maps we make? Using a tree forest to hide units concept that was used in a bwm map isn't "stealing". That'd be like saying everyone who borrows stuff from pro maps is "stealing". That they used something in a bwm map just shows that we are part of the pro-map process. Don't be so greedy guys :)

As for the map itself, looks hard as balls to play lol.
flothefreak
my comment was a statement, and no offense. i only think it's sad that we make the concepts but our maps and ideas dont get attention. so the credit goes to the "copying" author for great innovation and stuff...
Nightmarjoo
Korean mappers don't really get a chance either. Nasty had said something to me that M# told him, that bsaically only the "pro mapppers" have any chance of getting maps into there, and that they like, decide what maps become proleague maps. Like, if rose.of.dream, forgotten_, and CarlSagan said that Sleeping Sun Finals was an amazing map the league people would look at it and decide if it was good enough for the gameplay they want, with the racial balance they want, and the type of games they want, etc. But if say Salazar Slytherin made the most gosu map ever, unless the pro-mappers forwarded the map to the league people that it would have no chance.

But yeah I understand where you're coming from flo.
Excalibur
Well SC can handle 499 sprites if you use SCMDraft and up the limit in the settings. 500 or more and youll have unit firing problems (Valk) or theyll get cut off. (As seen here.)
Nightmarjoo
http://teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/8538_FrOzean_vs_YellOw[ArnC]/vod
Here's a progamer vod of the map. The map played pretty well imo, though both players were clearly not at their 100%
Red/teal have really bad mains =/

Because there are almost no spites in the middle you can see your army clearly, but your ground units have limited vision because of the trees, but are protected somewhat by the trees. Also, unit movement is a bit limited, but apparently all units can fit through the matrix of trees.
lancet
"Well SC can handle 499 sprites if you use SCMDraft and up the limit in the settings. 500 or more and youll have unit firing problems (Valk) or theyll get cut off."

I have not been able to fit more than around 200 sprites with scmdraft2 (it gives me a "sprite limit" message). How can I fit 400?
Nightmarjoo
very carefully
Crimson)S(hadow
These available for DL yet?
LeGeNdZs
just an informative thing, the demon's forest you have uploaded is full of green on their tree's!! on the OSL game it isnt, and olso on the melee version the guy u got this from messed it up tell him to fix it!
SiaBBo
T_T Look those trees when you are playing. Bug?
PsychoTemplar
"just an informative thing, the demon's forest you have uploaded is full of green on their tree's!! on the OSL game it isnt, and olso on the melee version the guy u got this from messed it up tell him to fix it!"

I just played a game on the melee version of this map, and the forest is all stumps just like in the VODs, so I don't know what you're talking about.
LeGeNdZs
the melee is fine, but the one i want which is the OBS is not :(*
SiaBBo
This is pretty bad map. -_- Red's spawn is bad. I think have to edit those minerals..
Lancet
The melee is not fine, the doodads he uses contain sprites and he has gone over the sprite limit, the top part of the trees do not show when you try to play the map, it is a "stump" forest.
PsychoTemplar
"The melee is not fine, the doodads he uses contain sprites and he has gone over the sprite limit, the top part of the trees do not show when you try to play the map, it is a "stump" forest."

Which is what it's supposed to be -.- How else would spectators see the battles, much less the players?
Nightmarjoo
This map is really interesting strategically. I toyed around with some stuff earlier. The trees being really gay really adds a lot of unique strategy to the gameplay.
Lancet
"Which is what it's supposed to be -.- How else would spectators see the battles, much less the players?"

Well, if you are interested in the map because of the strategic and tactical value that maneuvering an army around those stumps creates; OK I guess that fine.

For me, however, a tree should look like a tree and units under a tree cannot and should not be seen at least clearly (but they show in the minimap). This is what you have in my maps "Trees of Ghelia" and "Temple at Ghelia" althought those are mostly pure sprites as opposed to doodads.

The "twist" of battling under trees is that you can't micro because you can't see well the enemy units. I thought this was the point of the map, I don't believe that the author of the map was having a stump forest in mind when he created the map. I think he just screwed up, he did not realize that placing all those trees would result in a stump forrest.
Nightmarjoo
I think there are no accidents in pro-mapping.

Also, you do have to micro your units through a maze of trees. Your units have very little vision under the trees, and you can't move quite as easily for flanking. Not to mention the 75% chance of being hit while in forest. So, air control will be necessary if you want to see shit, but won't be too effective as a military force because of the tree cover.

In your maps the sprites just make it impossible to see your units, aggravating hotkeying, micro, and overall unit control. Here, the gameplay is altered drastically, but without disrupting the players themselves.
LeGeNdZs
so has anyone fixed the map yet? the melee version was fine but the obs im gonna dl and check so ignore this if u all know it was fixed.
LeGeNdZs
I found the official files :D
spinesheath
Is the 70% hit thing dependant on the sprite or on the terrain? I never checked...
PsychoTemplar
On the doodad...
spinesheath
Doodads don't exist ingame.

They are only sprites and terrain.
PsychoTemplar
Sprite trees don't affect unit movement, cover, etc, while trees placed as doodads do. So there is a distinction. But thanks for trying to patronize me about shit you know nothing about :)
modified by PsychoTemplar
Nightmarjoo
This map was just removed from the OSL, it won't be played in the OSL again following the ro16 games.
Mapghost
Nightmarjoo

Wow! Can you speak and read korean? How can you recognize that?
ptar
Why?

PS: Ok, i found it. Mapghost, Nightmarjoo can't speak korean. He just visits teamliquid.net :D

"As reported earlier by WaxAngel, many pro teams have been complaining to OGN about the new Map Demon's Forest. As written here, the majority of complaints are about the tree doodads in the middle of the map. These doodads cause glitches in unit behaviors, specifically with vultures laying mines and archons being warped. (Although god knows how dragoons fair with their spastic behavior)."

Thats why it's removed.

modified by ptar
spinesheath
Nice try, PsychoTemplar, but you fail.

I doubt that you have much insight into the SC map format, contents, and how SC reads and interprets them. I on the other hand programmed an incomplete and thus unreleased map editor.

From Maplantis' Wiki: ------------------------------------
"DD2 " Section
Not required by StarCraft
This section contains the doodad map of the level. There are several parts to doodads. The graphical portion is stored in the MTXM section. The second part of the doodad is stored in this section. This section seems to be only used by the map editor.

Each doodad in the map gets the following structure

* 2 byte integer: Number of the doodad. Size of the doodad is dependent on this. Doodads are different for each tileset.
* 2 byte integer: X coordinate of the doodad unit
* 2 byte integer: Y coordinate of the doodad unit
* 1 byte: Player number that owns the doodad
* 1 byte: Enabled flag
o 00 - Doodad is enabled (trap can attack, door is closed, etc)
o 01 - Doodad is disabled




"THG2" Section
Note: Required for Melee game type
The map editor only writes to this section. Starcraft uses this section.

Certain doodads with sprites get the following structure.

* 2 byte integer: Unit number of the doodad
* 2 byte integer: X coordinate of the doodad unit
* 2 byte integer: Y coordinate of the doodad unit
* 1 byte: Player number that owns the doodad
* 1 byte: Unused
* 2 bytes: Flags
o Bit 0-11 - Unused
o Bit 12 - Draw as sprite (Determines if it is a sprite or a unit)
o Bit 13 - Unused
o Bit 14 - Unused
o Bit 15 - Disabled (Only valid if Draw as sprite is unchecked, disables the unit)
---------------------------------------

This means: A "Doodad" placed in an editor is split up into a sprite and a patch of terrain. Starcraft only reads the sprite and terrain information, and skips the doodad information (which is kept for the map editor only). Thus the 70% chance to be hit has to either be a property of the sprite or of the terrain. Note that when you place a tree on some dirt, you don't have normal dirt anymore but some special doodad-specific tiles.

So from what I have copied here - I never tested it - the THG2 section would most likey be the one that determines the 70% chance. An THG2 entry is no proper Doodad, though. It definately misses the terrain part, since SC reads the map terrain ONLY from the MTXM section.
modified by spinesheath
Lancet
Well, I tried placing units behind the stumps and they had the 70% protection when other units fired upon them so I guess it's the doodad that has this property. The sprite seems to be mostly for looks.
ludamad
Couldn't it be the terrain with the property?
ProTosS4EveR
hey, i have one question, do you consider the 70%chances to hit a good feature or a flaw?

imo it's a flaw, that makes luck>skill
modified by ProTosS4EveR
ProTosS4EveR
i ask to everyone
larjarse
It's a little annoying. Outboxer used the concept to make the entire middle cover area, and many users here were not happy about that.

I think it can be a good feature if utilized correctly, althought I haven't played this map. It would be cool to see some trees in mains as positional advantages early game. I'd like to see some pro games to get an opinion on that for this map though.

ProTosS4EveR
i ask this because i am able to fix this map with 30%rate miss and without
spinesheath
One of the main ideas of this map was the low sight range imo.

You also have to think about the number of units in battles on the area with lower hit chance. If the numbers rise, luck plays less and less of a role. I don't think there will be too many battles in the middle where hit chance matters on this map.
Replays



Upload replay for this map
Add your comment:


Because of heavy spam on the map comments, it is needed to be logged in to post. We are sorry that this has to be done because nothing else stops spam bots
random map
  (4)Ancient Waters
Newest updates:
  (2)Reflection 0
  (8)Ancient Ruins
  (2)Urban Jungle 1.0
  (3)Tempest 1.1
  (4) Hell point 0.3
  (2)Butter 2.0b
  (2)Gambit 0.81
  (4)Augustgrad 2503
  (4)0301 015
  (6)The Distrupter
MOTM
  • month 6:
      (2)Butter 2.0b
  • MOTW
  • week 2021.01:
      (3) Lambda 1.0
  • Main Forum
  • Share..(Shade)R)
  • I nee..(
  • Magna..(RedGoliath)
  • No Fo..(Minerals)
  • Feedback
  • This s..(triller1)
  • Rotati..(triller1)
  • Off Topic
  • scm dr..(sugardad)
  • Vetera..(ProTosS4Ev)
  • What's..(triller1)
  • Starcraft 2
  • announ..(triller1)
  • STARCR..(triller1)
  • Search Forum
    Articles:
     
  • How to make larvae spawn at the bottom right corner  
  • Worker pathing guide - How to debug and balance resour  
  • An elegant way of dealing with cliff asymmetry
  • Competition:
     
  • Innovative Naturals Competition  
  • Tourney Map Pack Aspirant Suggestions  
  • Maps That Need A Remake  
  • Think Quick Map Contest ($100 prize)