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Last update for (4)Prophecy : 2008, 05, 18 11:01
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2841 (4)Prophecy 128*128LostTampon2.5finalground

The map has been rated 72 times and got a total of 183 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Rye
Neat concept.

...but what's with all the mins in the center?

...and the mins right on the entrances to the expos?

...and the creep IN the expos?

Zerg map. :(
modified by Rye
MorroW
really cool this is good, dunno about balance tho
NastyMarine
VERY VERY fucking cool! I absolutely love it! The one thing that bothers me are the mains for purple and blue - they are shaped a lot different than the other two. I think you should fix that.

other than that, i really think this is a great map. I'm going to enter into the next Avaton Tournament.
LML
seems to be nice.
I like the nat's
LostTampon
thx for comments

Update

- largened mains of blue and purp
- removed creeps at sideexpos
- fixed a bug at @6-sideexpo allowing scarabs to cross trough
FateD
lol its prolly just me, but i really think it would be cool if there was a way to jump workers to island from main (like block it with a gas or 2 min blocks.. idk)

well, the map is really nice n original already, so u really dont need it.. its just a personnal though about it :P

GJ
LostTampon
did some small fixes

@fated:

hm yeah but i think you could grab the expos then too easily (which i don't want)
LostTampon
fixed that some nats were tankable

added obsmap;
modified by LostTampon
trcc
ļI got a suggestion, what if you make the 2nd expand reachable by land? Let's say you put a ramp on that little cliff to goes on the other side. BUT you put the gas outside the mineral wall ( in the open middle ) with some kind of neutral building that blocks the CC placement. so people would either go for a less vunerable expand, with no gas.. or for dangerous side ( DARK SIDE )

Just a suggestion. Ignore if you want lol
Crackling
i think you should jump past the minerals to get those gas, it would be a vulnerable expo.
...while you only take the minerals it would be easier to hold
Lancet
Cool, the creep should compensate zerg for the disconnected bases. I would remove all the unbuildable terrain from the gas expos at 12, 3, 6 and 9 to allow more building room there. Maybe sneak a probe or an scv and make some hidden buildings unreachable by land. No map description.
modified by Lancet
LostTampon
well updated it now
implemented the suggestions you guys made, although i don't know if this works out well:

- moved the gas at the sideexpos to the outside
- added small ramps (only passable for peons/hydra-sized units)
- badlands inverted ramps are fugly (well i don't like inverted ramps anyways)
Testbug
what?
now the ramps are obsolete. it'll fourty times better to build nexus or cc outside and defend it as a normal 3rd gass.

gass should be better. so you can have an outside minonly defendable. or build the nexus or cc inside (eady to haras and hard to defend) ith gass.

please undo the final edits.
Lancet
Ugh,put the gas back in.
LostTampon
yeah thx, had also bad feelings about this...
reverted back to original
LostTampon
finally updated map again:

- reworked minonlies:
x added backdoor entries only passable by small units
x moved cliff to the other side
x moved minonlies @3 and @9 a bit
x moved gas to the outside again

- deco changes
- moved gases at nats

i hope this fits more :)
modified by LostTampon
trcc
I like those changes better. but it's my taste :P The concept of of the gas outside but vulnerable mineral only is nice. but i wonder if a d-web line in front of the minerals would help in anything ( to protect the workers from small ranged units. Did anyone think of that? Could be a good way to add webs. If you build on the gas side, well its gonna be another protection for the workers if lets say units rush them (melee attackers)
LostTampon
- added now a small mineral clump at backdoors for better maynarding

hm, i have mixed feelings about adding now dwebs to this map, but i will think about it. thanks for the idea trcc :)

- edited design a bit
modified by LostTampon
Nightmarjoo
Huh, pvz FE looks kind of awkward, but the placement is do-able.

The creep shouldn't be so close to the nat at blue/purple, and shouldn't be so far at red/teal oO Atleast, pick a distance and mirror it for all positions =/

How easy is it for workers to hop over minerals at the third base? And is it the same for all positions? I guess this effects both offensive hopping (for cannons or so) and for acdidents (running from a storm drop, etc).

How awkward is the mineral thing in the center, for opposing corner positions?
Crackling
i HIGHLY reccomend removing the "path for small units only"

its completly nonsense and the map allready has enough _special_ things

remove it, jkjk :]
Crackling
goddamn and put the gas of those expos AGAIN into the "hole", "semiisland" or whatever you call it
LostTampon
The creep shouldn't be so close to the nat at blue/purple, and shouldn't be so far at red/teal oO Atleast, pick a distance and mirror it for all positions =/
it's the same distance in tiles. check with map editor

How easy is it for workers to hop over minerals at the third base? And is it the same for all positions? I guess this effects both offensive hopping (for cannons or so) and for acdidents (running from a storm drop, etc).
you can hop on all minonlies to the other side (tested).

How awkward is the mineral thing in the center, for opposing corner positions?
Less awkward than the word awkward =P

i HIGHLY reccomend removing the "path for small units only"
remove it, jkjk :]

means jkjk that this is an april joke? :P
if no do you mean that i should remove the whole passage or should i widen the path for all units to pass?

thx for comments btw :)
- gas in/out?
- passage yes/no?

hard choices!
modified by LostTampon
Nightmarjoo
"it's the same distance in tiles. check with map editor" Well, according to my test in editor, purple is actually a single tile closer to the creep colony itself. I dunno if that's significant, though if you wanted you could move it if you wanted to :)

"Less awkward than the word awkward =P" That's good :) And, awkward is incredibly un-awkward for me, because I have so much practice from typing it in posts on almost every map I comment on at bwm :D
Crackling
NO PASSAGE
GAS IN
Lancet
Well, what is the point of those valley pockets if the gas is outside (towards the center)? I think the whole justification for them is for the gas to be inside. Sure you can drop units behind the mineral lines and attack but you can also do that and better in the adjacent high ground. I also think the passage should go and they should remain as islands otherwise it is an easy 3 rd gas.
testbug
Lost Tampon please understand
GASS IN: so you have an outside normal minonly dfendable or an inside gass hard to defend, easy to harrass.
remove the passage don't know what is that for, but terran will have an easy 3rd gass defended by tanks. minblocked islands should be better.
i dislike the changes, 6 o'clock looks bad :(
LostTampon
okaaay
back to the old concept (again :P)

- added 2 minblocks at the entrances at the nats. why you ask? because the creep slime stays below the minerals even if you kill the creep colony. you can harvest it away and build again a creep colony :)
Nightmarjoo
main 2 nat distance is too long, mains feel kind of awkward, pathing can be really awkawrd at times, I don't like those islands =/ block them with mineral atleast ._.

I'd prefer gas on outside, not in island. Why? So you have a reliable 3rd gas. The nat choke is so weird that taking a nat doesn't necessarily defend the main behind it, and the main choke is weird so that the nat works better, so it can be hard to defend that.

Minerals mine kind of slowly, bad formations (atleast for z).

Middle feels kind of tight.

The island's minerals could be less awkward ._.
LostTampon
"main 2 nat distance is too long, mains feel kind of awkward, pathing can be really awkawrd at times, I don't like those islands =/ block them with mineral atleast ._."
- This makes really no sense; blocking the sideexpos with a mineral patch has no effect because you can squeeze drones through the minerals;
Also, the main-nat distances are in all positions equal; they are only a bit longer because you have to move around them, but i think they are ok

"I'd prefer gas on outside, not in island."
- In, out, in, out aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh *crying*
there seems to be a lot of different views about this, noone can be satisfied with the layout

"The nat choke is so weird that taking a nat doesn't necessarily defend the main behind it, and the main choke is weird so that the nat works better, so it can be hard to defend that."
- Yep, that's the concept.

"Middle feels kind of tight."
- I think it's quite open.

"The island's minerals could be less awkward ._."
- Well, i want them to be harvestable from the two sides

+ and btw... you made a typo in the second "awkward", use this word more often to avoid this :P
Crackling
"main 2 nat distance is too long, mains feel kind of awkward, pathing can be really awkawrd at times, I don't like those islands =/ block them with mineral atleast ._."
- This makes really no sense; blocking the sideexpos with a mineral patch has no effect because you can squeeze drones through the minerals;
Also, the main-nat distances are in all positions equal; they are only a bit longer because you have to move around them, but i think they are ok

yep, placing a mineral there really makes nonsense, joel was just not clever enough to lift an cc over lol :D
main-main felt really long, i'd highly suggest moving the startlocations on the place where you have mud/gras (minerals opened towards nat-entrance), should be better.

"I'd prefer gas on outside, not in island."
- In, out, in, out aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh *crying*
there seems to be a lot of different views about this, noone can be satisfied with the layout

keep it outside, makes way more sense and played fine for me.


"The nat choke is so weird that taking a nat doesn't necessarily defend the main behind it, and the main choke is weird so that the nat works better, so it can be hard to defend that."
- Yep, that's the concept.

yep, but still felt fine for me, i also think that only z would aim for nat+main instead of a close minonly/gasisland anyways

"Middle feels kind of tight."
- I think it's quite open.

no it was really tight, flanking was impossible, those minerals have to go and the structures have to be placed in another way :/

"The island's minerals could be less awkward ._."
- Well, i want them to be harvestable from the two sides

was fine for me

the ovispots arent good enough, i gonna make a paintpic later on where there should be some.

i dont understand why you placed the 2 additional mineral blocks there, also the others are better replaced with some highdirtrocks.
LostTampon
"keep it outside, makes way more sense and played fine for me."
- you mean with outside inside (=in the island) or vice versa?

"i dont understand why you placed the 2 additional mineral blocks there, also the others are better replaced with some highdirtrocks."
- as i explained before, you can use the creep below it to build a sunken on it, even if the creep colony was destroyed

will try to fix the problems :)


And guys, thx for the replays!
if you wanna play some games on your maps pm me!
modified by LostTampon
Lancet
Again reread my earlier post:

"Well, what is the point of those valley pockets if the gas is outside (towards the center)? I think the whole justification for them is for the gas to be inside. Sure you can drop units behind the mineral lines and attack but you can also do that and better in the adjacent high ground. I also think the passage should go and they should remain as islands otherwise it is an easy 3 rd gas."

But Lost Tampon, this is your map, in the end just do what you think is right.
MorroW
why it got so bad rating now?
its a cool map
LostTampon
lancet, you are right. but i think the gas is less defendable when it is towards the centre.

btw, updated it again:

- made center more open (but left mins there, i like it the way it is)

- added better ovispots
- added more mins at nat entrances:
-> it is now possible to block entrances with 2 creep colonies (even lings can't pass) or other buildings
- moved mains a bit
- and deco changes of course
modified by LostTampon
Nightmarjoo
looks better
Crackling
hell yes <3
LostTampon
sry for bump, just updated picture (i think this is my last update)
diggurd
this kinda looks like my map, with backdoors and mainard chunks... but hey, your map is awesome! :D
LostTampon
@diggurd, there are no backdoors nor mainard chunks
the picture on tl.net is outdated
NastyMarine
buggy obs version. :o
Nightmarjoo
any avaton reps?
NastyMarine
It seems no one uploaded reps >< but i watched a few good games and have reps from BW-Lip the winner.

I got a few complaints that this is anti P - especially for FE
modified by NastyMarine
Replays


--TSL-Nightmarjo vs TSL-Crackling(1on1, 1.15)
--TSL-Nightmarjo vs TSL-Crackling(1on1, 1.15)
--TSL-Nightmarjo vs TSL-Crackling(1on1, 1.15)
--TSL-Nightmarjo vs TSL-Crackling(1on1, 1.15)

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