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Last update for (4)Embryo : 2016, 10, 24 18:31
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2846 (4)Embryo 128*96Grief_Stricken4.9finalground

The map has been rated 56 times and got a total of 276 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Grief_Stricken
i haven't played sc for a while but these week because of the miserable weather too,was a ideal time.after some(boooring)games,because of the weird maps that people play nowadays in the realms,i thought lets play some better maps against BWAI.after the first game i thought it would be interesting to play a 4 pl. map on 128*96.and than - surprise!not even 1 map that i have in the folder.first idea lets check bwmn.and surprise again - only 9 maps!!and from all these 9 just one that really make sense.a pretty old one from good old travin - path of darkness. - thats a shame!!

so i decide to make myself 4 pl. 128*96 map,just for my own use.i have to admit that is not so easy to aim an concept that really works on 128*96 for 4 players.'cause there is not so much surface available. maybe that why are so few this kind of maps.

after some test games i really like how it plays, so i finally decided to upload it.

have fun

Lancet
You have a gas issue in the mains. Place the gas directly on top or to the left (not at angles) of the starting location. Hey, I can't open your map with my editor (scmdraft2).
Nightmarjoo
Mineral only islands? :(

Map is ok overall, besides gas issue. I'm too tired atm to look at it hard, for balance analysis or whatever; it looks fine from a glance.
boongee
the only thing wrong with this map it's that there's nothing wrong with it.

just too standard
NastyMarine
ya as boongee said, its way too standard. nice execution, but theres just not enough to keep me interested.
MorroW
me neither i cant open the map :S

id like gas to islands

only fault in this map is the 100% mirroring and gas issues
Grief_Stricken
to nasty & boongee: the really wrong thing is that you haven't readed my comment.otherwise you would understand the entire situation.i advise anyone before he write a comment to do it.just in addition let's say,if you ever wanna play a 128*96 4 player map you have currently just 2 serious choices in the db:this map and travin's - path of darkness.i'm thankful if someone else would be able to realize a better one.so much about this standard charge.

to the gas issue: there is no gas issue!how long are you here nightmarjoo & lancet? the gas is not on the ideal position on 9/12,but the distance to the gas is the same for evry player - so,the same distance for all 4 players in the game.just if one of them would have his gas on 9/12 and the other not it would be a gas issue,but so long each player has to go the same distance,it isn't.you can't call this a gas issue!but maybe you understand under gas issue any deviance from the 9/12.

why the islands don't have gas? each 4 player map should be playable/balanced even in a 2v2,right? lets say each party start with one player on north and the other on south.if one party is a little quicker than the other and get both islands they would have a difference of +2gas compared to the other party.i think that would kill the balance totally.and in a 1v1 you don't really need that gas anyway.keep in mind that this map has with the islands,2 expo more than luna,and that was a good balanced map over the years.so you see,gas on islands is not really necesary
DG)SpoilR
Oh that's cute.I try to see how it plays.
Nightmarjoo
All of those geysers mine at different rates, that's why it's an issue. Distance isn't the factor, it's the placement from the nexus that matters.
MorroW
"lets say each party start with one player on north and the other on south.if one party is a little quicker than the other and get both islands they would have a difference of +2gas compared to the other party"
that doesnt matter the balance at all, if they are faster and if thats all about that is the winning/best team
Grief_Stricken
Your commentnightmarjoo,you never give up.but once for ever,the distance from the cc/nex/hatch to the geysires is the same.that's why there are no diff.rates for gas mining.should i bring it on a preschol level? fine.here is a picture for you.


morrow,if you admit it or not in a 2v2 it's not balanced anymore in the scenario i have spoken about.in a 1v1 you don't need that gas anyway,i make that clear why.i thought it was also clear for a 2v2 but obviously not.my last try.if a 128*128 map like luna was good enough over the years with 8 geysirs for both 1v1 & 2v2, i think a smaller map like this could work well also with 8 geysirs.i think it's reason enough to expand on the islands even if they don't have gas,because of the amount of minerals.at least in a 2v2.if someone wins,it should be because he used a better strategy not because he is a bit quicker than the other player

MorroW
ye sure sry
Rye
I think what Nightmarjoo means by a gas issue is that it's further away from the starting position than it would be in other maps. Could be wrong, though. Bite me.
spinesheath
You STILL don't understand the gas issue, Grief?

Check out this map
Grief_Stricken
don't split hairs with me.all lateral placement of gas so long it has the same distance.to the middle positions,like lateral top and lateral bottom,is for me good enough.
spinesheath
I'm not "splitting hairs" when I am talking about more than 10% difference in harvesting speed between some of your positions.
neobowman
Which is like 1 or 2 mutas in ZvsZ so pretty much any player Zerg player will chop up your body into little pieces because they got a few less mutas and got destroyed.
MorroW
yea fix gass issue, 3 workers on some positions and 4 needed on others. thats kinda much in zvz
Lancet
Grief, we are beating a dead horse. Read the map thread of the map "gas issue" that spinesheath mentioned above, position IS important. The 12 and 9 positions are the best not just because most other positions mine at different rates but because in some of these positions zerg, terran and toss workers have different mining efficiencies.

If you want to claim your map doesn't have a gas issue then is up to you to prove it. Show us the evidence.
Grief_Stricken
i think,i let you talk until the cows come home -.-
Rye
Guess what, I did a test. The mains at top left and bottom right need four workers for maximum efficiency, while the other mains need three. All the nats need three.

Solved.

EDIT

Omg, I just noticed, GS, your map description, that's Iron Maiden - Hallowed be Thy Name! Rock on, man!
modified by Rye
Grief_Stricken
actually,you would need in all mains 4 workers for the gas(in the orig.version).the idea was to slow down a bit the tech in the early game.but because of all these schoolgirls which complaining about everything i have changed the map so that they can't cry anymore.you can recognize it if you look to the picture and remember how the resource placement was in the game.also instead of 9 min. in the mains,there are now only 8.

try a new game on the actual version - maybe a 1v1.let it rock,dude!

just curious how old are you?
Rye
16. :P
modified by Rye
spinesheath
There actually still is some Gas Issue on this map. Roughly 5% difference in zvz right vs left.

I'd also like to know why the map is protected... As far as I know, we once said that protection is to be avoided on bwmn, and MOTMs can't be protected at all.
Grief_Stricken
in your terms luna would have a 50% gas isssue;but obviously the pros don't care that much,and they still play the map in tourneys even these days.just look to the icc mappack.i can live with your so called 5% very well.i wanna make one thing absolutely clear:i'm not supporting issues,but if someone try to point out each silly thing and ignore the essence of a matter,it's not serious argue anymore - it's gossip.

i have my reasons to seal the map,and i don't need to justify myself for this.actually it's not necesary to be clairvoyant to understand some of these reasons.not so long ago i saw one of my maps in the realms with a other author name,and alot of other maps also.once sealed you can't change it so easy;ok there are tools to unprotect the map but once unprotected you cannot change it with an editor so easy.i hope to avoid so good as possible a mutilation of my maps...and other good reasons like this one.

no need to fear about your beloved motm;so far it concerns myself i have no desire to put one of my maps in this competition.but just for your info there are protected motm/motw.at least,rubi
spinesheath
On luna the final 2.1 (the version in our DB), terran has a worst case difference of 20% (99% - 20%), protoss 12% (92% - 80%), zerg 8% (92% - 84%).

Just rough values, didn't bother to take out a calculator; so the actual values might differ by 1% or so.

And yes, luna is one of the worst maps considering the gas issue.

Unguro Crater: no gas issue.
Loki: no gas issue.
Hwangsanbul: no gas issue.
Baekmagoji: no gas issue.
Faoi: no gas issue.
Zodiac: no gas issue.
Vampire: no gas issue.
Troy: no gas issue.
Tau Cross: no gas issue.
Python: no gas issue.
Monti Hall: no gas issue.
LT2.4: no gas issue.
Longinus: no gas issue.
Blue Storm: no gas issue.
Shine: no gas issue.

ICC maps with gas issue: 5

So 1/4 of the ICC maps in our DB have a gas issue. Could be better, yes, but it is obvious that most mappers - even those that make maps for proleagues - pay attention to the gas issue.


Exchanging your name with mine just took me 80 seconds - from downloading the map to saving the modified version. Most of the time went into selecting my download folder. And don't try to find better protection now, because protection can't do anyting against this.

Oh and I don't like that Ruby is protected. As far as I know, it became motm before we decided on the no protecion rule, but anyways this should be a no-no.
modified by spinesheath
Rye
Imo, add two geysers to the islands. North one gets one above the mineral lines, but between, and south one gets one below, still between.
Grief_Stricken
i explained once why the island don't need gas at all costs.try to find that comment and i think you will understand.

@spinesheat -it's not just because of the name(the protection),you haven't read carefully my comment.once you killed the protection it's not so easy to mutilate the map,i said.you can't make changes inside of a map so easy;changes with isom.are not possible,only custom
LasTCursE
new replays ?
Crimson)S(hadow
"if one party is a little quicker than the other and get both islands they would have a difference of +2gas compared to the other party"

well of course if they were faster players they would have more expos -_-
Grief_Stricken
u missed the whole point, phrasemonger. long story short - read again the entire comment. if u don't understand some parts ask me! but don't cut out a certain phrase and try to comment it like it was not a part of a bigger statement.ok??
Replays


--Rye; Juniorthedutch vs Comp; Comp(1on1, 1.15)
--DG)SpoilR vs Comp(1on1, 1.15)
--DG)SpoilR vs Comp(1on1, 1.15)
--DG)SpoilR vs Racine(1on1, 1.15)
--QEd)RE vs windows(1on1, 1.16)
--BobbySue vs Sagat(1on1, 1.16)
--BobbySue vs Sagat(1on1, 1.16)
--choijh vs cryptorchild(1on1, 1.16)
--AbsoluteO]ToK[ vs i_shaLL_kiLL_U(1on1, 1.16)
--TossGirl(OD) vs LGKKHanKal(1on1, 1.16)
--aG.Whom vs sD)BLazE(1on1, 1.16)
--Maxtor vs DapixX(1on1, 1.16)
--BobbySue vs Slough(1on1, 1.16)
--DeVoS.of.AH vs Shizoku(1on1, 1.16)
--DeVoS.of.AH vs sauron(1on1, 1.16)
--DeVoS.of.Ah vs sauron(1on1, 1.16)
--E]z-UnrealNoob vs RinkuHero(1on1, 1.16)
--E]z-UnrealNoob vs 4example(1on1, 1.16)
--DeVoS.of.AH vs sauron(1on1, 1.16)
--SH-Thanatos vs CaiNiao[KfH](1on1, 1.16)
--ki)control vs DapixX(1on1, 1.16)
--HilariouS vs shinigami(1on1, 1.16)
--Berserk-Lzuruha vs kachu(1on1, 1.16)

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