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Last update for (2)Rhine 1.1 : 2010, 02, 14 03:30
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
3991 (2)Rhine 1.1 96*128Nightmarjoo0.2betaground

The map has been rated 49 times and got a total of 12 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


Nightmarjoo
For the contest at tl
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110095


The map is based on the theme "Decimated Earth".
I addressed the theme visually and through some slight gameplay modifications. Most of the visual touches to the theme are in my use of doodads. On the edges of cliffs are small facilities, power plant looking things, radars, buildings that could house troops, civillians, or administraters. Often these are nearby to or mixed in with rocks and trees. Both that this was a natural world not entirely settled or cultivated, and that the flora grew into and around the abandoned structures. The map is mostly natural looking, with the outpost areas at 3/9 being the major exceptions. These areas are annexed sections of land plentiful with resources, walled off to keep out enemies and/or indigenous fauna. The bridges of course are also man-made, to make the area more accessible, making it easier and quicker to maneuver through. Were these bridges and roads used for innocent travel? Military conquest? Supply lines to support a growing and distant military? The relative multitued of critters, particularly in the walled-off annex further suggest that it has been some time since the humans abandoned this location; nature is replacing the old settlements with the fauna and flora that occupied it prior to human settlement and conquest.

The modifications to gameplay include the addition of 250-value mineral blocks at all bases; two in the mains and one at each expansion (including the nats). These excess minerals however have their values taken away from other blocks at the expansion. Thus, while the main has 11 mineral blocks, it has the same actual total mineral count as a main with 9 normal blocks (the standard), and this is true for all bases. The implication on gameplay is that if you have the worker count to exploit it, you will get more minerals quicker, getting boosts in minerals you wouldn't normally get, but that your expansions will run out slightly sooner. In particular, the addition of two such blocks in the main potentially support/encourage the use of 1base oriented builds (as opposed to fast expansion builds). The gas is not touched at all. Thematically, this could be the result of previous settlements mining away those mineral blocks, or perhaps mining attempts resulted in the breaking away of sections of minerals off of the larger blocks. Or perhaps, it has been so long since humans disturbed the area that new mineral formations have had the time to form.

Null tiles prevent (or should, atleast, haven't tested it) pathing issues with the khyadrin crystals.

The neutral block at 3/9 consists of 3 stacked power generators.

The broken cliffs (as well as the outpost cliff) serve as ovy spots. For zerg, this multitued of safe locations to place overlords is convenient and helps make the map comfortable, and it also somewhat alleviates the difficulties even-paths place on scouting (with zerglings).

Every expansion is cliffable in some manner, the nat and corner expansion from the ice, and the central expansions by the outpost. Most notably, the ice that cliffs the nat is reachable by land. This ice however also makes incoming drops (or mutalisks) to the nat easier to spot and defend against.

No single expansion obviously defends another. This has two effects, especially in conjunction to the high harass potential created by the cliffs players will probably have to devote more time and/or resources to defense (for new bases), and players are also fairly free to choose between which expansion they wish to take at which time. There is no obvious choice in expansion (after the natural, naturally) order. This helps keep the expo layout fairly fluid and prevents games from being identical to eachother, increasing the variety in games on the map, and thus increasing entropy making the universe happy.

The ice paths could easily be used for both harass and army movement, particularly if you decided to expo along that path.
modified by Nightmarjoo
sTY_leZerG-eX
I like the map except:
- Those expos at 2 o'clock and 7 o'clock they look ugly :(

- Also I don't think that the outpost shouldn't be able to cliff 2 expos, I think it over shadows them.

- Nat choke looks to wide (I maybe wrong haven't opened map yet)

- 2 much gas, and I think maps look a bit nicer if they at least have one mineral only per player.

- O would make middle bridge a bit wider.

- And finally: Is it possible to remove those 2 invincible crystals they don't look nice specially if you have 2 of them.
I think you should remove them and put some temples or something else instead ( Any destroyable neutral building ) But if you really really want to make a permanent block You could do something better. ( If you want my opinion on a solution 4 that problem I can post an image on my next comment )

But don't misunderstand me I actually do like the map ( I love Ice )
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
LasTCursE
Sweet map i love ice xD
Nightmarjoo
Edit:

Removed neutral crystals as permament wall and replaced with tiles that look slightly less out of place (good call sty_lezerg-ex).
Removed neutral block at 3/9 and tripled size of entrance (to 6 tiles tall) to make moving armies through the ice path more viable (and thus to encourage such movement). Edited the chokes for 3/9 and the expansions by the mains to make walling off easier (possible).
Moved main formations 2 tiles away from map edge behind it to make building supply depots easier. Redistributed missing mineral values more evenly among the main minerals.

Impervious also believes the map has too much gas and/or needs a safe mineral only, and I disagree.
sTY_leZerG-eX
Ok nice edits. I just have 2 questions:

1)Why no min only?
2)What about that op outpost that can tank 2 expos at the same time? If a Terran can get that cliff it will be bad :(

Oh and about the new block in those 3 and 9 o'clock expos, its good, but I would add maybe some doodad tree sprites to cover it up.
modified by sTY_leZerG-eX
sTY_leZerG-eX
I have 1 + consern, those inverted snow2ice ramps look really bad :( I remember that LastCursE told me that they are a pain to make, so I thought I would give it a try:

LastCurse's:



Nightmarjoo's:



And this is mine attempt
sTY_leZerG-eX's:



I think mine looks pretty nice, if you are interested I could give it 2 u.
:)
ProTosS4EveR
oh i didn't hear about this comp, i will probably do something next week :)
Nightmarjoo
I like the outpost cliff being the way it is, I didn't make it on accident. The map needs this gas count, there is no point in a min only.

I like aspects of your ramps, I'll edit my ramps to reflect that, thanks. Yours are a bit messy though, but like I said I like aspects of it (the bottom most tiles, mostly).

Haha, good call on the trees though :)

Awesome p4ver, can't wait. We're gonna really dominate this competition lol. I'll probably make atleast one more map for it as well.
LasTCursE
my only conern is that this map may be kinda hard for PvT expecaly when T has tanks.. ;
JungleTerrain
"my only conern is that this map may be kinda hard for PvT expecaly when T has tanks.. ; "

lol
LasTCursE
STFU it is tight -.-
XeLious
This post is not displayed due to its content
XeLious
This post is not displayed due to its content
sTY_leZerG-eX
You never actually updated with the changes I suggested :(
Such as the snow2ice ramps and the doodad sprites 2 cover the ugly blends :(
ProTosS4EveR
he is maybe in a lazyspree
LasTCursE
Is there someone here that can unprotect and open the new "judgement day" map (they recently improved the old one) but they used some kinda new protecting and i can't open it with my unprotector :(
neobowman
Why are you asking that here?

The ramp areas have straight lines that really bother me. I can imagine a Match Point like situation where the Terran can camp behind the natural and tank it for a while before the Protoss can defend, except here, that location is easier to defend. It's harder to get there than Match Point, but even two dropships or so carrying tanks along with vultures can get there and harass the Protoss like hell.
Nightmarjoo
sty_lezerg-ex I never got around to editing it. Both things you suggested are good suggestions that if I ever edit the map, I will definitely implement.

well neobowman that's the idea; but I don't see how it's different than the kind of stuff terran does to protoss' 3rd on desti
neobowman
Are you talking about the Protoss's Nat? The choke for desti's dropzone is wayyyy larger on desti than here, as well as allowing a flank if the mineral patch is mined out.
Nightmarjoo
Double-edge sword, no blocked path so no way to flank later on, but the immediate route is always open with no pathing issues and it's easier to see them coming/stop them.
neobowman
Ok, have it your way.
Replays


--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs iCafe.Moto(1on1, 1.16)
--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs iCafe.Moto(1on1, 1.16)
--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs iCafe.Moto(1on1, 1.16)
--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs iCafe.Moto(1on1, 1.16)
--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs iCafe.Moto(1on1, 1.16)
--Hurricane[AoV] vs Wile.E[AoV](1on1, 1.16)

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