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Last update for (2)Escape_Routes : 2005, 12, 13 23:18
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
483 (2)Escape_Routes 128*128flothefreak0.8final

The map has been rated 62 times and got a total of 50 points
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Comments:   GMCS (14 elements)


flothefreak
A map not finished yet, neither did I set doodads yet.

I release this map in this early shape because I'm kinda stuck right now. The concept in the first place was to create mainbases that just differ from the normal ones. So I decided to put the starting location on a little cliff with a ramp, and the actual main in the backyard :P
As the CC and its defending buildings would be incredibly annyoing for units leaving the bases, I needed a second, larger entrance. I blocked this with 4x 16-mins (for it would be horror otherwise, for example in early pvz), so if a player feels strong enough to leave his base, he can choose how large the passage should be and like this he has a additional "troop entrance".

This worked quite well and I think my concept is working.

My problem now is the general map. I don't know if the middle is too small (or with too small spaces) to work against terrain (I created it so small in the first place because T not having many drop possibilities. So I'd like to know if I should widen the middle.

Further, and this is the main point:
What is your opinion about this map? I actually doubt if there are enough tactical and strategical possibilities making the map interesting.
Is it good right now, or should I make bigger changes?

thanks
flothefreak
Eh, at the moment, the minerals blocking the 2nd entrance to the base are belonging (in the editor) to the player using the base.
I haven't tested yet if this works in the game, but if it does (so the player would have the minerals vision), should I let them belong ton the player, or should I set them "neutral"?

pic updated
Listoric
Minerelas never belong to a player, they disappear when you start the game. (If you set them with scmdraft).

Hmm.. as a T i'd prefer to attack at the second entrance with two tanks, a floating rax and m&ms.

The map looks very flat and at it is now, very basic. Hmm... i'm tired, i write more later.
flothefreak
This is what I meant...There is just "not enough" 8[
boongee
I think zerg will rape because of easy expo + turtle and power with sunks. really awesome concept though. first map in a while where I smiled when I saw it
panschk
Imo TvP is very hard if toss knows the map better than Flacker did in the replay I posted :/

flothefreak
Thx a lot for playing, for I cannot do it since I got my router :/

I actually set those obstacles into the map because I considered T too weak and wanted to balance this a bit
flothefreak
Ok, I made some changes as I occupied myself with it once again.

- I reshaped the middle a bit concerning high-ground elements
- Changed the little minonly from 4 blocks to 3 blocks, for I saw both player taking it in the replay (P and T), and it's actually thought for zerg =)
- completely changed the cliff behind the minonly into highdirt and cut the direct path from the natural to the lowground-minonly-isle
- added a cliff at the 3h and 9h gas expo
- move the bottom natural a bit and added a little lowground cliff (with a ramp) behind it as possible dropzone, or possibility to harass. Though, I made the entrances in a way that a player who has taken the natural will see if units are moving to this lowground. You also see if there is a drop coming.

So I think I balanced it a bit favoring terran (minonly-cliff buildable, lowground as vultharass- or drop-possibility, cliff at 3rd-gas-expo) and gave some tactical possibilities in general.
I also think that I don't have to close the middle more than it is now, because T should be strong enough.

any comments? like it better now? or too t-favoring?
flothefreak
Ah, the ga at 12h natural is moved away from the back lower ground for purpose, because when dropped back there, the way to the ramp (in order to defend the drop) is longer than at 6h, so I wanted to favor this natural a bit as compensation
flothefreak
Although there haven't been any comments in the end (:<), I know came back to this map and re-designed it.

I structured the middle in almost all aspacts new.
Now, it doesn't look just "flat".
I also did the designpart now, and decreased the amount of minerals on the map, especially at main and natural. removed the blocking mineral at the corner-minonly-islands as well, dunno what I wanted with it^^

What do you think? I tend to think it could be user-final now. I might add a bit variety in design, though. But I'd like to have your opinion on balance and playability.
Listoric
erm, wow? looks awesome compared to the last version, i like it.
panschk
I still don't like it to be honest. Blocking minerals are only going to confuse T_T
flothefreak
eh, firstly, it's "now" instead of "know" in my last comment. secondly, it's aspect^^

thanks lis :)
panschk: the blocking minerals are just your main entrance. The tricky thing about is, WHEN to decide to mine them away. If you don't, you'll have to get your army through the 'upper main', and you're probably surprised when your enemy takes 2 workers and attacks from behind.
But as soon as you've opened this entrance...well, you've got another entrance to your base then ^^
this makes it quite a cool (and game-influencing) decision
[7x]SpitFire
Check the GMCS.. I tried to draw something.. :D
flothefreak
Hm, why should I move those expos?
it would be way too easy to get a 3rd gas, which would fuck up the balance, for there are minonlys that are destinated to be the 3rd expo. those mineralonlys lay much more convenient.

plz add a reason that is not "for good looking" :P
Starparty
i agree with spitfire here. or atleast remove the "harrasing way" behind. that equals a badly placed mienral wall when you wanna attack the sideexpos or move back from them
flothefreak
hm I'll think about it...
if my router just let me play games 8[
then I could test pathfinding with those walls ingame :[
Listoric
Imo this map would be as cool if the startbase was completely on highground and a minonly added where the mineral wall is now. Just a thought, would be more basic, but good imo.
flothefreak
nah, wouldn't like this
I like it as it is now, and even the design is now very appealing to me.
And with your proposed changes, it would remind me too much as being based on ragnarok somehow :/
(dunno why actually, it would be far away from it oO)
flothefreak
finally updated it.

I did not erase the path at 3h/9h center-expos, but removed the minerals blocking it. Now there shouldn't be any pathing errors, and the tactical element remained as well as the possiblity to harass the expos that lie in their back.
flothefreak
updated, due to reviewing my maps and improving them atm before going on to new ones.

-decoration (again mass doodad ownage)
-removed the pointless expo-isles in the corners
-changed mainbases slightly
-re-arranged minerals a bit

any further comments?
wanna improoooooooooove it!
ScoutWBF
In my opinion there are so many doodads that it looks ugly.

Sry but i think you should remove some doodads.
flothefreak
I know that it looks messy on the picture, but I don't judge it by that. If it disturbs gameplay INGAME I can still change that
flothefreak
I thought again about the GMCS made up there...
this is why I experimented a bit, so, which do you think is the best version?
the current one, or one of these:
version2:
Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

version3:
Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us


execution is not fix, that shall only show the idea. I like version 2 best atm, because it prevents terran domination somehow when having this backdoor to the natural imho

version3 make 2nd expo for terran really hard, but at the same time the map gets very thight...
which version do you like most?
flothefreak
ah, and LGI:
don't use " ' " in your GMCS (like you wrote "won't"), because it doesn't work then
you just can read the beginning of the text in the left corner of your brwoser :[
LGI
Well i like more version 3, but can you do something about the closing patch? Somehow it doesn't look very good.

And imo i think that in all versions terran will have problem with the expand. I have enought experience with terran vs protoss on a map with open expand, that can be attacked from 2 sides (wide sides!), and this is a big pro problem for terran. So when i make maps in future i will try to make expands with one way to attack or if it's to ways, at least on of the ways to be smaller.
flothefreak
I said on purpose that the execution is NOT fix.
I was talking about making terran weak because terran is quite favored with this quite small 2-expo-center, the cliffing possiblities and the (except vers 3) easy 2nd expo
LGI
Sorry, but many times i see new words that i don't know what they mean in comments, and i just try to translete it to myself in logic, or skip them... So i don't know what is "execution", now i know.
flothefreak
never mind!
wasn't meant offending ;)
Noone knows all :D
flothefreak
new version, what do you think about it?
what's better, what's worse?
I am not sure, but I think the center expos need a change yet...
LGI
It's good, you close one of the ways, and you fix path finding in the center expos... I like this version most.
flothefreak
little update and added obs version

do you like it as it is now?
or do ya have any reservations or doubts about it?
if you do, just tell me
trcc
As LGI said, there's a lot of doodads that may obstrukt the way not only in middle, but everywhere :| But i really like it more than b4
flothefreak
well, I'd like to play it a few times before really taking out those doodads
however, when logging in with my BWMN-acc on battle.net, most time there's noone to play with :<
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--Panschk[FP] vs flacker[FP](1on1, 1.13)

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