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Last update for (2) Rivers of Babylon : 2017, 04, 28 23:27
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
4904 (2) Rivers of Babylon othersirbeige0.4finalground

The map has been rated 39 times and got a total of 15 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


xelious23
Terrible. The donkeys are out of place. The monkeys ran a muck in the afternoon. The chickens are being molested at noon. In the evening the macorana.. Terrible!
NegativeZero
don't do drugs kids, or you'll end up like xelious
JungleTerrain
He's been like this for like a decade. Idk how
NegativeZero
must be the drugs
JungleTerrain
Nice, the pictures look much better.

You should definitely take a look at the gas issue. Almost all your maps have it.

I recommend vetical mineral lines wherever possible, especially in the mines. Players are generally more comfortable with these and you won't run into the situation of workers spawning far away from the minerals at the start of the game just because of the reason for maintaining symmetry.

Or you could use the trick with the hallucinated units to have the workers spawn at the top instead of bottom of the town hall.
sirbeige
I like to think that gas/mineral situation is dealt with (on all maps by now). Assuming that it's simply that gas should not be placed left/right of start location. Somebody actually pointed that out to me some time ago but somehow I forgot to fix it.

Any constructive criticism (flame) on the general layout? I'm a little excited that larger groups of units tend to wanna split up when moving out of natural. The double bridge at naturals make either choice equally long to enemy base.
Freakling
The whole gas thing is a lot more complicated than this, but as an easy starting point, main geysers should always be either directly above or to the right of the resource depot, because those are the only positions that give the optimal mining rate (~300 gas/gmin) with three workers (assuming no pathfinding bugs; as I said, things tend to get complicated).

The layout needs some easier to defend expansions, I'd say.
You could just move the bridges and natural chokes around a bit, so the narrow bridges become the shortest route nat to nat.
JungleTerrain
I'm not sure about this, but the nat to nat distance looks really short. On Teamliquid the new ASL Map Camelat has been blasted by Iris the former pro gamer on the grounds that the short distances (especially on 2 player maps), really makes it hard for Protoss in Tvp. For this reason I am being convinced more and more that 2 player maps should have clearly long distances from one base to the other or should employ the Blue Storm-like small path and large path approach. This map does neither, and the better the players are that play on this map, the bigger the issue will become.

None of the expansions have any sort of easily defensible chokepoint... this is the end for zergs. Protoss and Terran can just storm in the base, get surrounds on lurkers and sunkens, etc.
I feel that the high ground side paths, besides having that corner expo and leading to the 2 and 8 o'clock expansions, don't really blend in well with the rest of the map. Maybe add some more ramps leading into it and another expansion? They take a big chunk of the map space-wise but not value-wise (idk if I'm making sense here).
modified by JungleTerrain
sirbeige
Ok, thanks for the feedback. Ill look into this gas business and problably copy whatever others have done to begin with. Im guessing the correct placements could be found in other maps here and in some article here or on teamliquid. Regarding map layout Im sure distance would be fixable and making expos more defendable.
JungleTerrain
For the most part the easiest solution to the gas issue is just placing the gas in the main bases either to the left or directly on top of the starting location. These are proven to provide the best (and similar) mining rates for 3 workers for all 3 races, minus the times when pathfinding bugs arise.

All korean pro maps have addressed this issue since around mid 2006ish and mapmakers at BWMN have written articles about it dating back to 2005, although many are outdated now (although their findings are still somewhat consistent with our present conclusions). Dang, I sound like a scientist.

And BW is not like Sc2, choke points are a MUST for expansions (although not ALL bases require them) and are crucial for game balance between all 3 races. Chokepoints allow zergs to hold their 3rd gas against Terran (one of the biggest deciding factors in the outcome of a tvz). Chokes also allow players to retreat in the face of greater number of enemy units and fall back to a more advantageous position, taking advantage of the fact that pathinding into chokepoints makes micromanagement of units more difficult. Also chokes allow splash-damage-inducing units to hold off a much larger force (like lurkers va marines). Chokes also prevent Protoss and Zerg from getting their workers destroyed by vulture run-bys. In that case, the Zerg and Protoss can use the choke and some of their buildings to create a wall and prevent harassment from vultures (Terran is the only race with an incredibly fast ranged ground unit that can devastate worker lines in an instant).

These points I bring up are relevant to your other maps as well.
modified by JungleTerrain
outscar
I like these oldschool type of maps, reminded me 2000-2005ish era when simple maps were popular even if they don't look solid for modern standarts.

LOL at Xelius spam same shit on every map, chill man.
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