|pretty difficult defend for me...but looks like easy attack?|
|Based on initial play testing:|
It's pretty hard to play ZvT because you don't have a lot of space on the high ground for your sunken colonies... but at the same time, you can outright deny the natural expansion with Mutas because it's hard to build any defense there... So I need to rethink that a bit.
I'm not sure that there would be any issue in PvZ other than mutas. Forge FE should be fine against any ground + it's really hard to run any sort of contain because your defenses are so close to the ramp leading out onto the map.
So yeah, I think that if the muta situation could be patched, I think that Zerg would have a really rough time. But then again, that's kind of what I'm going for if I'm trying to get a submission ready for the next ASL...
|Oh, the other thing is that it's super annoying for Terran because the comsat blocks the ramp... I might just need to make the nat a little bigger.|
|Just one question: How do you expect Zerg to defend?|
|I don't really, but maybe I have to put a neutral creep at the bottom of the ramp|
|I'm trying to fix that without breaking it for forge FE (it's already kind of broken for Forge FE due to the surface area, I need to fix that somehow.|
|I added a single psi disruptor to narrow the choke in the very early game, added creep colony which allows for the placement of 1 creep colony at each location, creep doesn't block Protoss wall in.|
modified by Eywa-
|I'm not sure how to insert content... Basically, Protoss can fit 6 cannons at each base behind a full wall-in.|
|It still might be a bit uncomfortable for Zerg, but at least now it's not impossible. The muta potential is pretty high though due to the overall placement. It's hard for players to defend main and natural... So it is some trade off, in ZvT at least.|
|I'm going to do some basic testing then a bit of clean up, the edges on the last patch are a bit rough.|
|After a bit of play testing, I have to say the map feels a lot better now, the building placement at the ramps seems more defined now.|
Initial testing says PvT is quite strong on this map.
|A noteworthy feature of this map is the ability to siege the natural mineral line from behind the cliff... I'm not sure if this is broken or not in vertical spawns (horizontal or cross is definitely not).|
It can be annoying in PvT, but it's entirely preventable with scouting (As a cheese play)... The only thing I'm not sure of is how well / if Protoss can defend that from a mid game 5/6 fact push. I'm not at a level to which I can really attest to that, so it's just an observation at this point.
I would like to know how other map makers deal with dilemmas like this.
I also noticed some of the mineral formations are inefficient, I tried to spend some time fixing the path finding regions / re-positioning the minerals, but god damn is that hard.
I also am trying to figure out how to ensure the scouting paths are uniform across all bases, I need to check the path finding in a bit more detail for that too, I think the paths are still a bit weird on vertical spawns.
I really am enjoying the positional differences on this map though, it's complex strategically...
In TvP, I've been informed that it seems really difficult to take a third gas. I'm not sure how big of a thing this is at the moment, the vertical high ground is build-able Terran, so I imagine if Terran takes that, they can easily secure split map, it's another question that's hard to answer without a better understanding. The game where this came up, I had taken that high ground as Protoss and the Terran was on the low ground (mineral only), so it was basically impossible for him to secure the 3rd gas from that position.
It's certainly a bit more difficult than Circuit Breakers, but I'm not sure it's too difficult... But then I don't like easy third bases for Terran, maybe it's my Protoss bias.
|Natural mineral line siegeable from ground-reachable position that is not easy to defend by one's own units is not a good feature but generally just an imbalance that favours Terran quite a lot, here particularly in top vs. bottom positions.|
The general problem you run into is that you try to cram too much stuff into one map, ending up preventing you from properly spacing out everything. You don't need almost 5 bases per SL, get rid of all the resources in the middle and focus on creating some more open spaces and avenues to actually move armies around.
The bases at 3/9 are just super awkwardly set up. Just make them more standard, more CB-ish, or even high ground. Then you can add proper clutter filler as spacing toward the nats.
|I heavily modified the 3 & 9 positions as well as how the center of the map interacts with the sides, there's more space.|
Thoughts? I'm considering submitting this for the STPL mapping contest.
|I also rebalanced the mineral formations at main and nat, I haven't started on pathfinding for minerals / ramps yet (though I fixed the highground/lowground/transition on the ramps).|
|For the STPL map contest getting mains and nats in good mining shape and fixing any serious bugs will suffice for submission. The idea is to not force participants into putting work into deco and redundant rounds of debugging when significant layout changes may still be needed.|
|I would also get rid of the centre expo. Or at least rearrange it in a way where minerals do not get in the way of some of the already tight paths. You probably can just push them apart, random centre expansions that are basically impossible to efficiently mine from kind of have a tradition ;D (FS, Heartbreak Ridge…).|
The cliffs around the 3/9 o'clock expos I would also get rid of, unless you find having to deal with entrenched Tanks constantly a joyful experience ;D
I'd get rid of most of those unbroken straight lines. It just does not look very aesthetically pleasing. I generally try to make all transitions as fractal as reasonably possible. That ensures they look good on all different scales.
To fix and avoid Tank holes you could replace Low Platform clutter with Space terrain. You can find good transitions between the two kinds of cliffs in most of my Space maps.
|Some minor changes - Just working on plugging holes @3 & 9 - still unfinished.|
As well as removed minerals in the center.
|The main-nat setup reminds me of Uzi Sara haha|