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Last update for (2)Sleeping Sun Final : 2006, 04, 11 22:44
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
647 (2)Sleeping Sun Final 128*128ScoutWBF3.6final

The map has been rated 60 times and got a total of 217 points
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You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
Comments:   GMCS (12 elements)


ScoutWBF
2Player semi-air map.

Well what shall i say to this map?
The mains are the only high ground on the whole map.
They have 2ramps,one leading to the natural expansion and the other ramp leading to the middle.
The ramp that is blocked with minerals has 40minerals per block.
The 4 little mineral blocks in the middle of the map have 16 minerals,so you can gather them early to get your big units on the other side.

If you have suggestions or just want to say "this map is fuckn boring" write a comment!
boongee
think of terran tvp. it's like they get an automatic wall to start the game off with so they don't have to worry about goon rushes and then they get a long bridge thing that no one will ever be able to penetrate when there are tanks on it.
ScoutWBF
I expect that this map is played an AIR map not Ground.I never saw somebody to go goon rush on air maps.
And you forgot the terran cant lift minerals ;P
flothefreak
T can just mine them if he wants to leave his base...
and players don't give a fuck if the author wants them to play air-map style if they're far better off with doing this on ground...
ScoutWBF
uhm then remove ramp but still let the road there?What you think of that?
flothefreak
well, this would be quite cheesy and i dunno if it would work, but as a T I'd probably at least try this one marked in the GMCS:

dunno if possible, maybe you already have your shuttle then, dunno. but should be tested...
Listoric
Yeah, i'd remove the ramp. The shape of the mains is neat. Make the map a good airmap, the base is good. Also this map looks better in details as your first ones you posted here.
Starparty
Remove ramp and roads, and add islands there instead
ScoutWBF
i removed the ramps.Don't you think there are to much expansions if I would add another expansion?
panschk
Make sure all players can build a nice big mainbase on their isle. Not sure about the bottom pos. Also stop that horrible mineral blocking thing, and maybe make the expansions more exposed, terran can make them a real castle too easily imo.
ScoutWBF
Updated.Not forget to refresh the picture!
ShaManT
games on this map shoud take so long...
ScoutWBF
Dunno.At the moment I only played TvZ.But I dont think they will take too long.
ScoutWBF
Updated again because of some people saying too many expansions belong to one player.

Tell me if this version is better.I still have the old one
LGI
Well, i think that every air map should have one big rule. And this is, to not have a reachable FE on ground. This destroys the balance. It's not just my opinion. I am saying this from experience in gaming. We know what each rase do on air map most of the games. For example 90% of zergs go on mutalisks. Well this FE destroys everthing. I already have a replay for you to prove what i am saying and this is on (2)space dementia0.3 . I just start like in normal ground game. Taking expand and playing for hidras or something. And i just wait for my drop upgrade. What is the advantage? I don't make a single sunk i am playing safely. I dont make lings in the begining, i give all my money for drones and hatchers. In a few words, i eat from 2 expands more then a normal game!!! And on that time the other player is making some drop, with few units that can hurt a bit, because on that time i will have enought hidras. Because i still wont have the upgrade for drop. I don't hurry. I know i got advantage, and that is enought for me...

In a short, zerg can make FE easyer then everybody, also the games when T or P go for a FE, especialy on air maps are very rear.

A good map on an air map with reachable FE on ground will rule for sure. So about the map, its just inbalanced for me.
ScoutWBF
Uhm,just because there is a Expansion reachable by ground doesn't mean the map is imbalanced instantly.Lets take a look on Gorky Island:No ground reachable Expansion but still extremly imbalanced.

And against what noobs do you play if T or P fast expansions is rare?I know in Mirror match-ups its some kind of suicide to go Fast expansion but it isn't that rare in like TvZ or PvZ.

Oh and I forgot:Parallel Lines has a ground reachable expansion too and was played in pro leagues.Maybe you should think about things you are talking about...
ScoutWBF
I forgot to ask: WHAT LITTLE F*CKER VOTED 0 ON THIS MAP?!
panschk
LGI, you are wrong. A map like this still disfavors zerg, but less than other air maps. Isle of siren = terran map (not gorky like imbalance though^^)

This map actually improved, I still dislike the the minerals in the corners, but oh well-...
ScoutWBF
You are right they are ugly i will delete em
ScoutWBF
Deleted.Dont forget to refresh the picture with CTRL+F5
Listoric
It looks better every time i come here. Except that, LGI, you really are wrong. I love to do a fast expansion against Zerg as Protoss on LT or ToE. just 2 or 3 cannons and some zealots and the expansion is safe till zerg gets mutas or lurker.

Also here you can easily go FE with any race, and P and T will have a better time with their expansion here as they have on every map imo.
LGI
I give 20$ to any of you beat me on this map. Me Zerg.

Note i can play with you only in PGTour. Aka InfectedMind.
Listoric
lol, now mapping gets even more interesting ^^ 20 bucks for kicking your ass? :) god damn, i wish i was a better player now ^^ if i don't have o pay you 20 if i lose, then lets play saturday ^^
[7x]SpitFire
Hahaha :D
LGI, lets play not for money, but just for fun TvZ and PvZ on this map. U are Zerg, as you already mentioned. My aka is 7x)Sky, today I will add you in friend list..
LGI
Ok, guys, i will be here all day. My ICQ# 289478142 . Just write me there when you are ready, and i will enter in PGTour battle net.

Note, that i am invisible mode all the time, so don't worry i will answer.
panschk
pgtour is down:(

Can you give the IP adress of your bulgarian server?
LGI
Sure, fsgs.headoff.com (217.30.208.76).

My aka there is LGI :)
flothefreak
well, LGI, you drop only 1 thing when you say "zergs can make the normal 2-base-build, but with much mor eco"
the point you miss, is that every semi-intelligent toss or terran will take his own expansion _very_ soon (e.g. pyl, nex). and especially when you don't go for early drop (wich you pointed out clearly), there is nothing you can do. and beside possible other expos on the map (p/t having shuttle), it's still 2base t or p vs 2base z. and then you're literally fucked.

of course z can expand easier than the other races, but p or t just don't need any units to defend either, so they can do their expo as 2nd or 3rd building, because until it comes to fights, the expo has covered it's costs for long, and if you wait too long for research, it's even more useful.

I suppose you just win ("I am saying this from experience in gaming") because none of your enemies has a real clue how to play this game. a stupid standard player who is playing the same style/bo/strategy in every airmap-game, will certainly use against an enemy who doesn't play straight standard- in this case, the mass-hyd-no-drop-thing.
a wise player would just draw his conclusions out of seeing so many hyds when ddropping: doing another expo because he knows your drop will come very late, and gain mapcontrol, in other words, take enough expos until you can drop, so he can easily macro you down, while still defending the expos. and when you drop 1 of the outer-expos of that player (which you'll have to, if you want to have a chance), he will just proceed to your mainbase. and then it's 1base zerg against 3base protoss, or anything.
LGI
Look my english is not that good to expalin everything. So fsgs.headoff.com (217.30.208.76) . Be welcome.

P.S. From 4 hours now i play this map to train before you guys come. Well my winning % is 100% for now, nearly 10 games vs diffrent players.
ScoutWBF
Maybe its because you are playing on a noob server? I think its like that because they like you map "graham wood" which is just plain ugly.
LGI
Mayby you don't know nothing about Bulgaria?

Anyway, i invite all of you there, to proove that you are not noobs and all headoff server is full on noobs, and win on this map? Yes?

P.S. Graham Wood just have a perfect gameplay. They like it, because they play it. They don't judge a map from a jpg, only because it's preaty. Make prety maps, hope they are playable, and get a life.
ScoutWBF
You just said that the server is full of noobs O_o.

Your map may have a perfect gameplay in your dreams.

And now lets get back to the topic: My Map.
LGI
ScoutWBF how old are you?
ScoutWBF
15 soon 16.Why?Do you want to say "Go away kiddo" because of my age or what?
LGI
Just to know who to behive with you...
Listoric
Gosh, kids...

LGI is just very confident in his Zerg skills, and i think he certainly IS a good Zerg. I also got a replay on Temple of Eden from yesterday, where i kicked the butt of a friend of mine. We played ZvZ, he killed 8 drones with 8 zerglings at startup because i was to dumb to scout him. He had his natural running while was trying to get drones to survive the next 3 minutes. After i upgraded my hyds to 1-0 and then 1-1 i survived every attack with nice hyd micro, killed his mutas he built, and won the game in the end, with only the main against main and natural. I had more drones then him and attacked smarter, so he was fucked, even with a better "starting possibility".

Same here, you can win, you can win very often here, but it's just because it's uneven in player skills. If i was my mate in the game i described, it would be over after 8 minutes. Same here. It's easy to win, if you're better. Even if you're just slightly better or have the better clue of the map. A lot of factors are important, especially in "our" skilllevel. It's not that a map is auto pro T or pro P, but on "the same lvl" the chances to win are higher on airmaps against Z than on groundmaps. And that is a known fact. Still Zerg will win many games here.

Ok, well.. dunno why i posted that here really ^^ actually, stop argueing, upload replays, tell the author what to improve and argue about that. Thx.
Listoric
Ah, and name the map right please:

(2)Sleeping Sun 1.1(n).xxx <- something like that.
Listoric
And now, finally, to the map itself:

I like it. But, i think this "one way straight island thing" is just not good. Imagine the game evolved a bit. Imagine a Terran build goliaths and tanks on the long "crocodile shaped" island. And now pushes from one end to the other. Actually, it shoudln't be a problem to erase everything on "his" ground the whole way over the island. No flanking space, no chance to escape. if the island would be "bone shaped" instead, you would get rid of this problem somehow. Still, you can stick to your concept and just say "it is that way, you have to be aware of it". Also fine. Just something i personally dislike about it.
LGI
About the map for me is just not original. Looking good, but not original. Today i am sick of playing on that map just to train a little for you. I still don't have a loss. Only one game was close to loss, because i do many mistakes, but i won anyway. I will post this replay for you to be happy that i was close to lossing.

Just think about it. What can you do on this map? You got mains, you got one straight line wich is not enougt for fights or expanding. There is only one way to every expand on the line. You can't make any stragates. You can think of something original in gameplay, you can escape. Only one way is just nothing.
Listoric
ScoutWBF is already on it, i sugguested something like:
Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us
Listoric
just a rough improvement made in 40 seconds. he will update his map soon, lets see how it evolves.
flothefreak
but he should make the naturals equal attackable/shootable from outside
ScoutWBF
You like this version more?

http://img416.imageshack.us/img416/4454/2croco2n9sm.jpg
Listoric
Looks good :) I like this version best by now. btw, gg.
panschk
good update;)

I think you have made a pretty good map at last.
ScoutWBF
Thanks.I happy that you like it...and that it now looks like a crocodile.
Starparty
make bases bigegr (island map) and 12 + 6 island bigger
ScoutWBF
You missed Sleeping Sun or thought it's dead?No way! You get a new updated version with now 8mineral block at main and expansion,some new Terrain changes AND bigger islands and main bases for more place to build!

Have fun XD
panschk
nice

I like sleeping sun!
ScoutWBF
I love U 2 Dude XD
ScoutWBF
Comments pls^^
Starparty
Add some cliffs to some expos so it gets more variated
LGI
Thats better.
ScoutWBF
If you mean^^Maybe I should go make an observer version now with text triggers that I own XD
panschk
Now give it a final look. Much more (mainly walkable and buildable) doodads, make those cliffs in the center look better. (actually, there shoule be a completely open center imo, now that you have some choke points at other places and a cliff at 2 and 8 expansion.)

And please test tank range for the cliffs. Looks like you can shoot only gas at the left one, but both gas and CC at the right one.
ScoutWBF
Doodads added but cause of desert only having small buildable doodads they are pretty invisible^^
ScoutWBF
By the way vote 10!
panschk
Hm Im still not impressed. Its true that desert has really not many unbuildable dooads, but then try to work with terrain changes for the looks. I love having some structure in crags (so thin that you can still build anywhere) in main bases, just try to make every screen of the map look good.
ScoutWBF
Now impressed?
flothefreak
still too many straight lines in the terrain-mixtures for my taste
ScoutWBF
Now there should be no straight lines except the little paths to the islands but its impossible to make them curved.
panschk[FP]
Well, you will never be trcc. That`s ok, I can't do what he does neither ;)

Map is still you best work imo, I could imagine some good games on it.
ScoutWBF
You are just inaccurate.You say there are straight lines:WHERE?! Upper left,right middle or something.I need the positions!Its like u say "The ground on that position is ugly".Would you know where when you like everything?

So if you critisize please more informations!
flothefreak
pointed a few out with GMCS
ScoutWBF
k.All changed^^
panschk[FP]
I just realised how bad the symmetry is. compare distances between the natural expansion and the 3/9 gas expansion. Pretty hardcore :[
ScoutWBF
I know XD Who cares about symmety?^^
ScoutWBF
I mean who cares about me changing it later?^^
ScoutWBF
Changed XD
ScoutWBF
http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sleepingsunmyfinal6fz.jpg
ScoutWBF
If an admin could delete the 2posts above pls.I dunno whats the right link sry. 8[
Shamant
place a mineral in the middle of the island expos to rpevent terran from floating a CC over it. IDK if they alredy said this but i dont want to read the WHOLE thread.
LGI
I really don't think that this is nessery, espacially on Air Map....
ScoutWBF
Out of the forgotten land there comes the Sleeping Sun again with some small Terrain changes!
Listoric
Again, beter. Keep working on it and maybe change the position of the upper left ramp. Think panschk said something about that already, not sure.
ScoutWBF
Really? how should I change the ramp?Oo
Listoric
Well, you can walk past the expansion if you drop on he left isles, but not on the right hand side.

so i'd move the ramp a bit more up and right, so that you have the same as on the right side. Then you have to go through the expansion to get up to the mainbase as an attacker?
ScoutWBF
RAmp has been moved.
ScoutWBF
Unwanted Dropspots fixed.
decaf
Theres nothing left to do is there? -_-
ScoutWBF
Dunno if you know something just tell me.

But I don't think there is something^^
ScoutWBF
The tar of the old version looked so empty so I blasted around 100 into it!Yeah now it really looks awesome!
Replays


--ScoutWBF vs Der-Richter(1on1, 1.13)
--ScoutWBF vs Der-Richter(1on1, 1.13)
--LGI vs ManInBlack(1on1, 1.13)

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