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Last update for (4)Nazca : 2008, 02, 22 20:35
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
1455 (4)Nazca 128*128GRC-DeathLink4.4final

The map has been rated 65 times and got a total of 286 points
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You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
Comments:   GMCS (1 elements)


GRC-DeathLink
After many experimental maps, I decided to make a somewhat standard map for everyone. It's the first time I've used reversed maps and it looks like they turned out fine (I hope) :D

I'm still not sure about the size of the main chokes tho, if they should be narrow or very wide like they are now. Other than that, I think everything else is ok.

Comments and suggestions on the map would be appreciated.
modified by GRC-DeathLink
epidiOn
WOW! Looks really cool, and you've got three exits from the nat, that's awesome. I'm very impressed.

I'd close the choke a bit though, to 1rax wide.
Antares
it is your best that i have seen so far
good job
NastyMarine
the map is freakin' awesome! you really are pumpin out some great maps!

Suggestions:

the space behind each mineral only expo looks great, but i would sacrifice some area so a player can place defense behind the min line.

the invert ramps arent placed the greatest (maybe i expect alot) but there better ways to make the tiles on them etc (but for ur first time they are very good).. and make sure that the tile transition is perfect or either you'll see too much of the ramp (from the bottom) or nothing of the ramp (from the bottom)

other than that, the map is great.. its really suttin special :)
LGI
DUDE! A+ !!!

You've done something that i was trying to do long ago!

Lot's of kisses and i will surly push this map as far as i can!

P.S. You might wanna shrink a little the chokes.
modified by LGI
GRC-DeathLink
Thanks everyone for your comments. I think we all agree on making the main chokes smaller, so I'll do that as soon as possible :)

To NastyMarine: I filled that space behind the min-onlies with doodads so that the gas expo above couldn't be attacked by siege tanks (and to create the curve-shaped cliff above). That way both adjacent players could claim the gas expo, not just the player from the min-only side. I could push the minerals one grid away from the cliff if you want, but I don't think its necessary since you can place defences on the side of the minerals.

Indeed, the inverted ramps also could be improved, I just saw how you did your ramps on "Mother Love" and they look much better, especially the tiles where the ramp ends and the high dirt begins, it looks natural. I'll try and fix them up a bit.
Scorpion
Wow, awesome.
Valkyrion
very incredible map, i like it too much, but i think that the entrance of each main are too big or perhaps I blunder...but they seem big
SynDrome
hmm, freakin good map Im willing to test it asap. I cant find anything wrong, but I will let you know of anything =P
LGI
So will you make the chokes any tighter?
GRC-DeathLink
I've uploaded some PvT replays just for fun.

The chokes will be modified and become smaller, don't worry about that :D

I'm just planning on some other minor changes in the map. What I want to do is push the mineral-only towards the nearby cliff without allowing siege tanks from below to hit the middle gas expansion above. It would allow more ranged units (goons/hydras/lurkers/marines/vults etc) to hit the mineral only and provide more strats in the game.

I'm also working on fixing the reversed ramps so they can look better.
LGI
You can also make an obz version in the final version of your map.

GOOD WORK! I WANT YOUR SIGNATURE!
AiurZ
has the game changed a lot so that the chokes have to be super tight all the time? i remember on all rampless maps that the chokes were this sizish, and i never really thought it was a problem.

has there been some fundamental change in gameplay such that it is impossible for players to play without a 1grid choke into their main?
fry
I don't get you people.Are all of you blind?This here is just no more than a fake from Starpartys Space Lotus.Evry further word about this map is useless time.
modified by fry
GRC-DeathLink
The chokes have been changed and are now smaller. I still have some other minor stuff to fix like the reversed ramps.
NastyMarine
@fry: no resemblance
GRC-DeathLink
I've updated the map again, the reversed ramps have been edited a bit and look better (I think) :D
LaO-Artanis
Added a not-so-good replay, but every replay is one.
trcc
This is the first map i appreciate with these reversed ramps ( no offense to anyone else ) :P

Good job, we just need some replays(testing) and then gogo ^^
Scorpion
With the smaller chokes, this map is perfect....

It's awesome.
MuShu
Man, Nazca looks awesome! Now all we need are some test games to see how it pans out.

GJ DeathLink.
spinesheath
I really suggest to narrow the chokes@main, since protoss has to use too many zealots to keep it shut unless he is going fe and thus builds cannons. But you don't want to force protoss to play the same strat all the time, do you?
Well, I call this the Azalea-Effect. Zerg just gets 12-18 lings and protoss can't do a thing for quite a while because once he takes a step outside, lings will be in his base and tear his eco apart.
NastyMarine
simple gate and pylon wall can fix that.. im not sure that the chokes need to be smaller.. but it wouldn't hurt
spinesheath
gate + pylon seems obvious but is easily harrassed and keeps the protoss in a bad position. Also, if he really walls with those, he will have to destroy the pylon later, or in the other case, he still needs quite a bunch of zealots to keep it tidy.
You CAN hold this choke with protoss, definatly, but it is annoying and I don't see so much of a compensation for this.
And as Nasty said: It wouldn't hurt. (No you don't have to move a 200/200 army in and out of there all the time, or what do you do on maps with ramps?)
lnept
This post is not displayed due to its content
Scorpion
I just noticed, from a post on PGT, there's a swastica

..Like Azalea!
spinesheath
This post is not displayed due to its content
lnept
This post is not displayed due to its content
decafchicken
hotsex.
GRC-DeathLink
I've added an obs version of the map, and some replays just for fun.

edit: please someone delete repid 936 cause its the wrong replay. thx :D
modified by GRC-DeathLink
Asura_Blade
just one thing... can 4's gas be hit by tanks from the cliff?

if not, this map is flawless in my book =D
king of 8 plr maps
This type of maps i wanna see from you mofos here, "joke" anyways good map this is MOTW for shure. Havent seen a good map in while here. Thought only starparty could put something like this together.
Starparty
qft
GRC-DeathLink
Map has been updated:

- Fixed gas and minerals in mains
- Changed gas amount at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o clock expos to 2500
- Reduced the temple walls in the middle for better flanking
- Fixed an error with the small ramp @ 9

*edit: image updated too :D

modified by GRC-DeathLink
GRC-DeathLink
Updated again, this time main bases are much larger in size.

I haven't updated the picture, my image program doesn't work so I can't upload it.
modified by GRC-DeathLink
Nightmarjoo
I don't like the rocks between nat and mineral only, and I wish that area there was larger; you could reduce the middle a bit to open the lowerground area.
GRC-DeathLink
Image updated, thx to NastyMarine :D
NastyMarine
wow now isnt that pic just so damn sexy?
DG)SpoilR
Who's the really image lover??
Nightmarjoo
lol
Nightmarjoo
rep added
NastyMarine
reps reps and more reps!

total of 21 reps from todays tournament.
modified by NastyMarine
Lancet
I now have patch 1.14 but most of the replays don't work and some of the replays are not even on Nazca. Is anyone else having problems with the replays or is it just me?
LostTampon
you have to have bw launcher for them to work
Lancet
Thanks, LostTampon, I downloaded it and now they work fine.
Nightmarjoo
lol I love how pvt is the mu in question on balance, and 0 games were played on this map for pvt in the avaton tournies, the pvt rep here is not in nazca lol, the avaton players are not so bright.
Arden(WoF)
I am going to make love to this map, mmmk?
Nightmarjoo
nasty will be jealous that you're cheating on him
NastyMarine
very true
Grief_Stricken
@nightmarjoo"and 0 games were played on this map" aha! i saw this coming...with nazca.if i remember corectly i told you this in our moty dispute,that nobody is prepared to jeopardize his chances in a game,solely because he pick a interesting map.please,dont misunderstand me.nazca is a nice map,but with the 3 large chokes near to the nat+1expo,the map require an unusual strategy.this means de facto you have to change your style - just for a map.and allow me to ask:how many are prepared to do this?
Nightmarjoo
lol Savior himself said that longinus2 is very t>z, and I don't see him running away from zvt games on it.
You have to adapt to every single map Grief, surely you understand that.
Grief_Stricken
for all i care!if he wanna jeopardize his own chances - his affair.my honest opinion is that a map with visible imbas shouldnt be allowed in the mappool of a serious competition.i'm not even sure that the most pro's can "read" deep into a map.that's why their opinion about maps is not so weightily in my eyes.

i agree with you when you say that a good player have to adapt when he plays different maps.absolutely right!but i think it's also easy to agree when i say that nazca requires very exclusive strategies,and this for all 3 races apart
Arden(WoF)
If every map was perfectly balanced and flaw-free, then we'd be playing different versions of Sattarchasm. I love Sattarchasm, but I also enjoy some variety from time to time... These imbalances that you point out are not enough to put this map down. You need to just accept the map for what it is. It has a style like no other, and for that reason, it may have some subtle imbas, but that doesn't make this map any less worthy then others. I think there are a lot of fun games to be played on this map, and I wish you could just let it be instead of finding every tiny flaw.

Just accept it... This map is fresh, new, and invigorating. Just because the racial balance isnt a 1:1:1 ratio, it still deserves an honorable mention.
boongee
lol

sattarchasm is balanced?
Arden(WoF)
Yup, it's got data supporting it to. H/o, i'll find the link.

http://www.pgtour.net/ladder.stats.php

This link doesn't seem to work... but I remember that it showed an even win 50/50 ratio for all matchups (for the most part - some were 51/49)
modified by Arden(WoF)
NastyMarine
i heard actually that sattarchasm is verrrrrry imbalanced 1;1 map but great 2;2 map. We were going to involve it in the carrier mappack until that issue was brought up. we may add it for 2;2 ladder tho.
boongee
maybe I'm thinking of a different map. I remember one map that had a huge tendency for Z>P that we put onto PGT

I'm pretty sure it was sattarchasm though
Nightmarjoo
wgt13 sattarchasm+ doesn't work, so fuck that map.
Grief_Stricken
no boongee you think about the right,dweeb.i agree totally with arden.to call sattarchasm imba is more than a unbounded cheek.and dont start to compare satt. with nazca. because before you can say knife you would disgrace yourself.dont bother!
the difference is so huge like the distance between earth and moon.and i hope you know who's the earth.....congrats,it begins with s
modified by Grief_Stricken
Arden(WoF)
I never compared the two maps. I merely stated that if every map was as balanced as [insert balanced map here] then games would become boring after a while. Therefore, Nazca is unique and interesting... blah blah. I'm gonna stop spamming this thread now.
modified by Arden(WoF)
NastyMarine
idk what this fuss is all about. Nazca is a great map
Nightmarjoo
grief are you any good at starcraft at all? I asked for a 1v1 with you in Arden's map and you dodged with reticence.

Sometimes I reall wonder how you come up with your balance theories.

spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam -_-


Nazca is an ok map, it's not really very exciting to play though. A terran friend of mine who is lower skilled was complaining that he didn't have the micro required to play Nazva tvp, that it was too hard, and this was after having played it, not having theory crafted with a picture.
DG)SpoilR
"Sometimes I reall wonder how you come up with your balance theories."These arent theories,rather matter of facts.With the 3 large entrances that surrounds the nat and the first expo this map force T to a very defensive tactic,cause you have to ensure that you wouldnt be overun by Z or P.On the other hand for P and Z the map offers ideal conditions,with all the large chokes,to use their mobility to their own advantage.This means the map encourage a very aggressive tactic for Z and P.Isnt this a important race imba.

On the other hand Sattarchasm has some minimal positional imba,like Luna,Memory Cell,etc.But these imbas doesnt affect a game in such a way that you can say"I lose a game because of those imbas".That would be simply -BULLSHIT-.
NastyMarine
Teamliquid.net thread regarding Nazca in the WGT official mappool/mappack:

http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=51823
DG)SpoilR
Wouldnt be the first race imba map in their pool.A good advise for evry T player in advance:think twice before you choose this map as T-player.On the other hand if you wanna win vs a T-player pick this map out,if you are a Z/P player
flothefreak
i wouldnt be surprised if this map actually turns out to be balanced in a 55%/45% ratio at most. which is perfectly alright.

players always see things like "OH MY GOD IMBA". sure, inverted bases disfavor tvp, pvz, whatever, but well, who complained that much about requiem?
DG)SpoilR
If I understand you right your argument is if there is already a imba map,why not a second one?

...why not?...in this mappool are more than enough...for evry tileset...
flothefreak
no, my point was that all players whine when seeing a map. ANY map. they would whine about LT or luna when they'd see them for the first time. this map can easily turn out to be balanced.

most players nowadays only see the reverse-ramps to the mains, where they cry "terran 100%sure loss" about. but none whined about requiem being imba...
DG)SpoilR
I welcome this map in evry competition,- I give you my honest word - but only allowed in matches for ZvZ,PvP or PvZ.It is the entire concept of this map that doesnt offer T a fair chance.The amount of large chokes,good for mobile races like Z/P,the nat & first expo setup(surrounded by 3 large chokes);that force T to plays very-very defensive,otherwise he would be overrun by Z/P..That's why this map is so hostile for T
flothefreak
well, same would go for P in PvZ. i just said, it wont be like OMG IMBALANCED, as you want to see it. 45/55 is normal standard ratio, and it probably will be around this in TvP
modified by flothefreak
DG)SpoilR
I see this different.Evry each expo offers enough surface to defend her with canons/colonies.T need units to safe them(the expos),this means as T your first units that you have are to defend those expos -Z/P can do this with canons/colonies-,so their first can be used units from the begin on to attack/harass.If these units are destroyed they(Z/P)have canons/colonies as coverage till they build new units.In a ZvP I cant see this kind of problem,also both are mobile races and can use those large pathes to their own advantage.

I admit that in the early game Z could hurt P badly with a muta harass agaist the minonly in the main thats why so quick as possible canons to protect this area
flothefreak
sunkens cost A LOT of money and drones for zerg. those drones are missing in the economy then. protoss needs to build many cannons (cause a few get raped by tanks/lings/hyd/whatever) which means he has less army. this also hurts him in big battles - be it vs z or t. in fact, terran units can be used to attack/defend elsewhere in case of emercengy, so they're more useful.

you see, theorycrafting is fun!
DG)SpoilR
Hah,you!If you believe you can win on this map whitout building colonies as Z or canons as P -I wish you good luck-.I havent spoken about amonts of them,just the usual way to protect each expo.As T,because of the open nat area,you have to keep the main-army near to the main-base.Now imagine you take a expo on the plateau.Z/P are able to destroy that expo before you are able to defend it -because of the bad mobility of T-.Not to mention that a good P,as example would place some high templar near to the nearest choke that you would use to respond the attack and would decimate your army before you are able to reach the jeopardized expo.The same thing can do Z with lurkers or defilers instead of high templars.It's a mobility issue that doesnt allow T to control this map.
Falcon_A
Yeah. I think that you NEED cannons in PvZ...

But considering I'm a T player, I just try to end the game before most of the expos are used. I can't protect them for shit. I try to keep my army in the middle, and they backdoor my nat and shit. xD

Don't take it from me though. I'm not very good at BW

>_^
^_<

But...

I love this map. Always have, always will.

I try playing it on bnet, but people are too scared of trying something that's not LT or Luna.
NastyMarine
TvP will be pretty hard honestly. But doesnt mean that its impossible. Just need to learn a different style. The games i had on this map that were TvP, it was hard to take the min only. But once u had it, you are fine and able to start pushing. But pushing correctly is the real problem since there are so many ways to get to the nats and to the middle. So really its a totally different learning curve but doable.

I Do think however, that one of the entrances (I'll GMCS one of the ramps) should be a regular/default sized ramp for the sake of T. DeA[Light], I really think you should do this. Check GMCS
GRC-DeathLink
Well I'm still open for suggestions and improvements, however I'd also like to see what the members of tl.net think about the map and what changes they suggest since there are alot of good players that hang out there.
Nightmarjoo
lol the thread on tl says this is protoss hell map
LostTampon
i think ppl should stop playing theorycraft
NastyMarine
true
flothefreak
a map can hardly be pvt AND pvz imba.
GRC-DeathLink
That might be a good idea Nasty. But I could use more feedback on this map since its gone official on WGTour and stuff, thats why I replied over at tl.net asking for everyone to post some ideas about the map. I hope some of the top players that hang around there will reply.
Falcon_A

"LostTampon
i think ppl should stop playing theorycraft"

I agree. ^^;
Hi, look this our good sites:
This post is not displayed due to its content
NastyMarine
?? wtf ??
Nightmarjoo
it's a bot, I censored it
Falcon_A
Can't you just delete posts?
Nightmarjoo
no I'm only an admin, not the great wizard himself!
flothefreak
...which would be me then.

8]
spinesheath
You'd have to ask panschk for stuffz like deleting posts. Deleting the whole map thread would be possible, though - shall we? :p
Grief_Stricken
for what reasons? posting maps and debate about them is everything what this site ever delievered.
This is the diet ephedrine pill sale given to cialis generic the frenc
This post is not displayed due to its content
Hi, look this good sites: K
This post is not displayed due to its content
Crimson)S(hadow
sounds to me as if someone is trying to advertise girls in here -___-
Hello everybody, let's begin our party:
This post is not displayed due to its content
Hello everybody, let's begin our party:
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flothefreak
how is it possible for that bot to post?
Hello everybody! Our super party is being continue.
This post is not displayed due to its content
Hello everybody! Our super party is being continue.
This post is not displayed due to its content
Hello everybody! Our super party is being continue.
This post is not displayed due to its content
Hello everybody! Our super party is being continue.
This post is not displayed due to its content
NastyMarine
this is ridiculous
Nightmarjoo
well if it was elsewhere than just on a map no one comments in anymore I would contact panschk, but I don't think one bot on one map no one comments in anymore is worth bothering panschk over.
flothefreak
he could maybe simply change this account's password. so this bot could neither log in again, nor create the account with the same name (which could happen if panschk only deletes it)
LostTampon
well, that wont solve the general problem... mayb the registering system should be extended by using an email account for activation; wouldnt solve the problem completely but at least it would be harder for spambots to get an account
flothefreak
nah, email regging always sucks. better make some of those random letters to be typed in, or a checkbox...
LostTampon
ah yeah, the image thing would work :)
Nightmarjoo
oh god I hate those, I think the system is fine, no need to change it as it's not a problem; if it becomes a problem we can just make post comment require a checkbox, since most people here don't post super short spamming comments, it wouldn't be much of a hassle.
Lancet
In terms of number of replays as of today (4-24-07) Nazca is in third place with 37. Sattarchasm is second with 45 and Geisterfahrer first with 63.
Nightmarjoo
2 more reps added
Crimson)S(hadow
this map + testbug's sexy decoration = orgasm
ProTosS4EveR
The deco is good enouth. ^^
Beater
Hello Longinus III
flothefreak
like, 100% NOT...?
Crackling
monty hall third edition
flothefreak
lt clone
ProTosS4EveR
Indian Lament clone for sure.
Nightmarjoo
Sup Usan Nation clone?
ProTosS4EveR
Nah, Jungle Story clone...


  
32
Replays


--Gr.nS)TaSSa vs Gr.nS)VicTim(1on1, 1.13)
--Gr.nS)VicTim vs Gr.nS)TaSSa(1on1, 1.13)
--Artanis[Xp] vs Proxi.Soul)iO- (epidiOn)(1on1, 1.13)
--NameTaken; Gr.nS)VicTim vs Gr.nS)Sha_Mat; Gr.nS)coulthard(2on2, 1.14)
--Gr.nS)Sha_Mat vs Gr.nS)VicTim(1on1, 1.14)
--Gr.nS)Sha_Mat vs Gr.nS)VicTim(1on1, 1.14)
--LGI, PlaZma vs CraftManProfy, LIFE_DEAD(2on2, 1.14)
--LGI, PlaZma vs sourcemag, Jason_XXL(2on2, 1.14)
--LGI, PlaZma vs MultiPlayer, qw11(2on2, 1.14)
--Nightmarjoo)pS( vs vultureee(1on1, 1.14p)
--SenSe.Nitmarjoo vs SenSe.tOss(1on1, 1.14p)
--aFz)Heme vs NinjaMammoth(1on1, 1.14)
--TuRbO- vs remnant(1on1, 1.14)
--TuRbO- vs Remnant(1on1, 1.14)
-- vs (1on1, 1.14)
--m4rlin vs xa-xo_Bg(1on1, 1.14)
--m4rlin vs xa-xo_Bg(1on1, 1.14)
--fAke.ALF.oO vs Ei_mamiplaycs(1on1, 1.14)
--NiC[S2] vs uC.Soko(1on1, 1.14)
--aFz)Heme vs octzerg(1on1, 1.14)
--GiTM.OmNi vs inF.Asterrix(other, 1.14)
--GiTM.OmNi vs inF.Asterrix(1on1, 1.14)
--GiTM.OmNi vs xLo.MistrZZZ(1on1, 1.14)
--a vs (1on1, 1.14)
--aa vs (1on1, 1.14)
--GiTM.OmNi vs xLo.MistrZZZ(1on1, 1.14)
--GiTM.OmNi vs xLo.MistrZZZ(1on1, 1.14)
--GiTM.OmNi vs MgZ)Sea3(1on1, 1.14)
--GiTM.OmNi vs MgZ)Sea3(1on1, 1.14)
--GiTM.OmNi vs paq.ugin(1on1, 1.14)
--GiTM.OmNi vs paq.ugin(1on1, 1.14)
--IPS.ZeRo vs Ro[S2](1on1, 1.14)
--dBc-Nightmarjoo vs [Idea]PrettyBoy(1on1, 1.14p)
--MgZ)GohaN; MgZ)FabiaN vs nB)hottieplay; nB)Dziesio(2on2, 1.14)
--MgZ)GohaN; MgZ)FabiaN vs MgZ)TroniC; MgZ)Ryko(2on2, 1.14)
--DkH.Yayba vs gO)WeaSeL(1on1, 1.14)
-- vs As.lamah(1on1, 1.14)
--Lzuruha-Suna vs iM-Bakalol(1on1, 1.15)
--x.xNaztax.x vs iM-Haize(1on1, 1.15)
--BWMN-LyrA vs GG-PetShopp(1on1, 1.15)
--[Scl]thundeross; SavageHenry vs marsinsh; BiG)WooW(2on2, 1.15)
--BringiT.SkY vs sT-ByaKuya-(1on1, 1.15)
-- vs BW-OctZerg(1on1, 1.15)
-- vs EstablisheR(1on1, 1.15)
-- vs (1on1, 1.15)
-- vs (1on1, 1.15)
--iDG.Kelsen vs KTF.sG)Kunic(1on1, 1.15)

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