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Last update for (2)Undying Lands : 2011, 05, 25 00:32
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
1733 (2)Undying Lands 96*128NastyMarine1.3final

The map has been rated 40 times and got a total of 50 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


NastyMarine
Okay, the map has nothing really special except the natural. As you can see, the mineral line of the nat restricts any movement into any part of the rest of the map. I did however leave mineral blocks that can be mined out fast which have each an amount of 16. There is also two minerals which have 250 so that pathing can be better when units need to travel thru the nat. Hopefully it is ok in game:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
modified by NastyMarine

i may even make the two 250 minerals to 150?

feedback = thx
modified by NastyMarine
5pool
damn that pic is small :P

looks realy promissing though.

- i like the min barrier
- but im just a little doubting about the space on the map. entrances seem very small, and the center is also not very open ><

ill have a look at it with an editor before posting more
Nightmarjoo
nasty wtf is with you and small pictures.
"http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(2)Undying%20Lands%20(Small).jpg"

well can we see http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(2)Undying%20Lands%20(Large).jpg plz?^^

umm a restricting nat like that = your army marching through your miners as they leave your buildings, and you can't use your nat instead. Essentially p will always lose because they can't get goons out of base, and t will have to go mnm or rush drops to win tvp for same reason.

map is nice, but fairly tight looking. Maybe it's just he pic, but where do I flank?

T does not need a free expo with gas, plz mineral block that island.

Which path do units take when moving from one sl to the other? I bet they split up like retards.

Chokes are retardedly small. 2 lurks camping entrance = gg since t can't atk with more than a couple mnm at once and can't get tanks out of their base -.-

I might be wrong, a bigger pic would be nice, and I'm too tired to make one myself again.
NastyMarine
Well my aim was to make a semi island map at first, but then i started thinking: "hey this would be cool."

The map isnt tight, there is many flanking areas all around the map.. also there are 3 entrances/exits from the nat, i dont think there will be a problem leaving it if lurk(s) are positoned to stop movement out of the nat.

a mineral block would be so stupid and unnecessary for those expos u mentioned nitemjoo. It would take so long for a player to send a support force there to defend it.. Its not worth taking it so early which what it sounds like what ur worrying about.. or even in general.. Its not worth taking the risk to do that to do it early game. and like i said, it would take too long for ground troops to defend that position if an oppponent scouts properly that a Terran is taking that position. So i dont understand the worrying.
modified by NastyMarine
NastyMarine
maybe it is the pic >_<
LGI
I can't wait to play whit terran vs toss here i really want to show you something all! The replay would be promissing too >:E
flothefreak
i dont like the highground expos near the mainbases. for the rest, it's great and innovative, very stylish somehow. i hope it has a decent gameplay, from the look it's seems to be quite a cool - because original - map
NastyMarine
*UPDATE*

- Added deco to the 6/5 highground area (forgot to add some there).

- Changed the two '250' minerals at the nats to 150 so that pathing wont be so terrible long after taking the nat.
Nightmarjoo
why no better picture!!
NastyMarine
teh pic = teh sex

it looks fine?
Nightmarjoo
not on a real resolution?
NastyMarine
Its not small. How would resoultion affect it? my resolution is on 1024x768. isnt that pretty standard?
NastyMarine
lots of possibilities on this map.. Already have a few reps but cannot upload them b/c of the size of the rep.
flothefreak
upload them as pack on an uploadpage (yousendit or similar)
Nightmarjoo
well on 1280x968 it's tiny -.-

what do you have first person reps on? =/
spinesheath
1280 x 1024 here. I could have 1600x1200, but that's too much for 19" TFT, everything so small :p
SynDrome
nighmarjoo on a widescreen notebook?
Nightmarjoo
@syndrome um no a 17' moniter...
NastyMarine
*Minor Updates*

- New Picture
- Obs Version
- Mineral block mining efficiency at nat has been improved.

the pic big enough now?
modified by NastyMarine
spinesheath
You could size it to 400% ;) It's big enough, yes :)
SalazarSlytherin
wow good..
Nightmarjoo
571x761 isn't that big of a picture. I don't understand why people were fine with the previous one, which was like half the size of this.

About the gameplay, it felt tight moving a land army around. It also seemed way too easy to defend the main and nat and the cliff base there, but hey I was fighting a terran. Tanks shooting you from all sides as you try and move a fat army through choke after choke trying to find somewhere to attack was no fun -_- That nat entrance is pretty gay. Main base building room is awkward. As terran you get like vertical columns of depots because there's no where else to put them, which results in a fairly tight base. Trying to move an army through the main entrance (the natural itself...) was pretty gay too, like I assumed it would be.
Holy)Sin(
I like undying lands innovative expansion design, but I think it will play better if the expansion was in a standard position and if them high columns were taken out so that the choke is wider. Those are different features that are definantly cool, but they take away from the gameplay.

I suggest on the nat expo to high expo take out the inverted ramps and just make another long single ramp. It looks like a good idea but the only entrance that looks difficult to block is the high ground to middle long ramps. The rest of the entrances are very thin making the units travel 1 by 1 to certain death. The main attack point would have to be the ramp to the highground expo.
NastyMarine
*UPDATE*

The mineral blocks are at 32 for gameplay efficiency issues.
ScoutWBF
Remove one gas expansion next to the main base.As a Terran player I'm pretty scared of the enemy taking his 2 expansions too fast.Terran is very vulnerable because of the 3 entrances to the natural expansions.
NastyMarine
the small highground gas expos at 8 and 2? those besides the other 2 expos with just 6 minerals each are so far away and hard to protect. removing gas at 8 and 2 would hurt pvt and zvt
LGI
Check the comment on the replay.

Note that i didn't play well at all, so you can imagine what a good player can do...
spinesheath
Yes, you can chees on this map. But it's not like what you did there was so much different from what you can do on other maps.
Your enemy just relied on the "islandiness" of this map, and did not build a single attack unit nor did he scout before your first tanks were at his door. But he should have realized that the mineral wall is very short-timed, especially since he mined it off himself.
By the time you set up your tanks you could have had a good bunch of mnm and just walk in and kill him because he already mined his minerals away. If he hadn't mined them, and no attack units, too, you could just have brougt whatever amount of SCVs it takes to mine it open.

This map is not playable as an island map, not even semi-island or timed-semi-island like coulee.
If you enemy had built like 12 zerglings and scouted just a little, he would have defended easily, and you pretty much would have been dead.

It is up to you if you keep the minwall closed for some time at the beginning, but unless you have your factories outside your main I don't see what you would gain from it.

Btw, imo this map is much too tight at several places. Bottom right and top left, as well as the size of the mains for example. I also think that the lowground entrance to your nat could be bigger.
LGI
Stop theory crafting bull shits, because:

I am not a terran player.
I play really bad this game.
I even didn't know that the minerals are 32 each (i tough it's 250).
This was my first time on this map.
This system could be AND WILL BE better in future.
lnept
L M A O?

wtf is so hard to stop about that??

your opponent had no clue what the fuck he was doing. he did not even fast expo or attempt to scout.
LGI
In short words it's a terran map. I have other things in my mind how to win whit terran whitout any problems on this map whit the basic idea that you saw in the first replay. I don't want to argue anymore whit dumbasses who don't want to see the otehr side of this game. Maybe you hate your brain or what?

Soon i will able to re-install my winodws and play some games. My previews game wasn't from my home. And then i can show what i have in mind and you will see games not only vs zerg. You will able to see this vs protoss too where this will hurt even more.
modified by LGI
spinesheath
If I was able to, I would censor you comments, LGI Oo

And I did NOT say that this map was balanced (dunno), but that this replay doesn't show anything.
lnept
ok and please test all your things on me LGI when im protoss, not some random guy.
ScoutWBF
I lost every single game on this map.And I'm Terran... and pretty good.

I would say the map is Anti Terran.But maybe it's only cause the map is weird to play.The map is like nothing!Neither ground nor air nor semi-air.I dunno how to play the map T_T
spinesheath
Imo as terran you should (when not cheesing) try to take the 3 expansions next to your main, they should not be that hard to secure, and then pull off some monster terran macro and push through the middle ;)
Focus on dropping and other harrass would be my suggestion.
But then again, I'm no terran player ;)
Nightmarjoo
well my tvt with nasty shows how easily expos can fall to drops. But also bare in mind if you watch the rep that I suck, and my tvt is unpracticed, and that t isn't my best race.

When I played the map I felt it was pretty hard to attack terran by ground since there are so many cliffs.
spinesheath
Expoes always fall easily to drops in tvt. I usually see players not trying to save their exps but rather counterdrop another ;)

But I'd say so, too, it's too tight where the expansions are located. At least the bottom right/top left should be opened up without that choke and a bigger ramp imo.
NastyMarine
i'll open up the main entrance to the nat. I've observed too much T ownage there. tho i do like it :P.

I didnt see the replay lgi posted but i assume it was a proxi factory. and that can be countered. I also assume that the player lgi played against is not as well knowledged as lgi (meaning not as good a player) and probobly a player that doesnt know the map well. the idea of the mineral wall is to give the player options. and cheese is the draw back to that but counterable and scoutable before anything happens. so im not going to argue about a cheese play.

i will however open up a few areas of the map. i havent played a game where the whole map has been utilized yet so i cant comment too much on its tightness. but i will modify it a bit. on the other hand, there are areas to flank and for each tight area on the map, there is a larger area to help that problem. so far (in games i've played or obs on this map) its been all about timing, especially when moving out towards your enemy.

plz before any more comments, play the map and post a few reps of urself vs sum1 that has a general idea of the map. then state ur comments.

bb in a day or so
LGI
How i search for games on this map or any other BWMN map:

I enter in the bulgarian server "Headoff", where i have more then 20 acc whit sum nomber of 20 000+ games. Anyway i play whit only one acc in the past two years and that's LGI whit stats 1700-1300. Note that i don't play for stats any many times when i am obz i leave earlyer or in other games where the guy says "can you give me ally" i just leave... I play in this server since 2000 year, so i am very well known there and they put me in the "old school" list.

I check my friend list to see if there is a good guy online (most of them old schools), well most of the times they are not online, or they don't want to play BWMN maps.

I am starting to looking for guys whit positive stats if they have below 100-200 games. Or people whit experience in this game (this means more then 600-700 games in their curent acc or all of their acc if i know that they have more).

Anyway many times i don't save the replay, because the game was not good.
NastyMarine
no comment
NastyMarine
*UPDATES*

- Removed doodads throughout the middle to make it more flank friendly.
- Modified nat entrances.
- Fixed position imbalance between mineral onlies at 12.
- Removed obstacle doodads in mains.
LGI
You know what you are right. I will stop wasting my time whit other maps and i will test only mines. I will only sumbit replays on some maps that i like and they are not mine.
lnept
good then maybe you will realize one cheese doesnt make or break a map..(especially one thats very easy to defend against)
Nightmarjoo
I like the changes, but I feel the gas at the nat is in a horrible place, and could be moved to be out of the way.
spinesheath
btw, did anyone notice the gas issue yet? :p
yenku
cant you just expo on the inside the main?
spinesheath
Yes you can, but then you haveno second gas, no building room, and your eco will get killed from outside.
Btw, you will mine off the smaller mineral blocks soon anyways, so only zerg with 12 hatch will use this.
yenku
not if youre zerg, just hatch again later.
yenku
eh. i see how thisll work. I like the map, it looks tall and thin though, its really 96*128?
NastyMarine
UPDATE:

- Mains have been modified for more building space.

- Mineral blocks have been modfied to become a vertical line of four minerals. It still has the single mineral blocks in between the others as well.

- Fixed a unsymmetrical part of the map at 6.
NastyMarine
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50694¤tpage=last

holy fuckin shit ^^
that makes me feel good to have it discussed there :)

I promise that more maps will be added to GG-Carrier in the near future. The next will be Nazca for sure! From there we will just see!
modified by NastyMarine
NastyMarine
UPDATE:

- Terrain Modifications:
- Removed temple walls near the middle river.
- Fixed middle river (in relation to being centered properly.
- Fixed river that wraps around 7's base.

edit: reuploaded maps; forgot to replace a mineral line :P

feddback = thx :)
modified by NastyMarine
flothefreak
i added GMCS. i would enlarge those ramps in order to give easier access for attacking - esp. needed versus terrans.

i also suppose to delete those waterholes, for the map itself already has many small paths and passages, especially around the expansions, so open up the center some more ;)
NastyMarine
well i probably would have added wide ramps for those expos already but after watching a bunch of reps of TvZ's on PeaksofBaekdu and seeing how vital those regular sized ramps are at at 8 and 3, I think they are great. It stops enemies from bum rushing the ramp easily and killing off workers if your defenses are still premature.

As for the waterholes, i think it isnt a bad idea. But i wanted to cut up teh paths just a bit. but i think i might just remove them.
modified by NastyMarine
Deathman101
Nasty, I love the idea :P...im gonna try to implement it into one of mine as per ptar's advice.
NastyMarine
Update:

- Removed water holes added more ruins.

- Changed mineral blocks at nat line to 16

- Updated obs.
Testbug
wth! picture looks ugly :S
NastyMarine
teh pic is teh pwn :)
ProTosS4EveR
Added GMCS.
NastyMarine
I finally converted a map into SC2! I hope to see you all on the comment section!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=226185
LasTCursE
gj nasty i like it ^^ :
NastyMarine
thanks! Give me some opinions on the polls in the link.
CrystalDrag
Reaper Ima, because they go high cliff to low main. :P
Remove trees, hard to see rocks


No, it provides interesting maneuverability.


B - I enjoy the terrain work. (5)

:P


  
44
Replays


--St0rM_tOne vs NastyMarine(1on1, 1.14p)
--panschk[FP] vs zorg[FP](1on1, 1.14)
--LGI vs snaxa(1on1, 1.14)
--TuRbO- vs remnant(1on1, 1.14)
--pn]bacterie[ vs uP)SHaD(1on1, 1.14)
--any vs (1on1, 1.14)
--jung[s2] vs (1on1, 1.14)
--fAke.ALF.oO vs uC.Cr1stY(1on1, 1.14)
-- vs sugoku[rise](1on1, 1.14)
--HoRRoR.T-ScT- vs iD.Wiget(1on1, 1.14p)

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