|This was one of my maps i made a few months ago.. I went back to it after never finishing it and i would like some comments to see what i can make better.|
|Hi, good to see you in here, too;)|
From a optical aspect, I don't like the look of the stuff in front of every players main. Maybe you could do better using some more of that white platform terrain creating some complex structures with it.
This map needs at least one min only that is not an island per player imo. A small 4-5 mineral min only expand in front of every players choke would be good imo.
4 islands is pretty much, esp. for a 2 player map. Maybe there is a special reason for having 4 island expos, if you really want that 'semi-island' gameplay, you should think about removing the gas expansions @10 and @4, and having gas in every island. That way it would really be something new, and we could start a serious discussion about balancing^^
I don't rate it yet, you said yourself that you want to change it anyways.
|Poor zerg must 3 hatch zvt :(|
I love the layout between each base's choke, the openess for flanking followed by middle for heavy countering. I also like the position & money count of the expos at 4 and 10.
I personally don't think a w player map should have more than 6 geysers on it. This one has 10... I definetely do not like the fact that there's 4 island expos on a 2 player map, but maybe that's just my preference.
I give it a 6/10.
If I edited it I would completely take out top left and bottom right expos, take out the gases at the other island expos, add 1 mineral patch to the 1st nats, take out one of the gases in mid, and move the main's (Nexus) mining area closer to the choke (top right's straight down & over left slightly and left mirrored).
Instead of taking the gases out of the island expos, you could instead take the ones out of the 4 and 10 oclock expos (2nd nats?) for a more LT'ish feel. But I think the original idea is better, because -
1) That island expo is pretty close flying distance for a CC and that would give Terran three gases
2) Like I said earlier, I like the money and position of the 4/10 expos - how they have a choke but are very very open outside which would give any race difficulty in securing them (especially terran).
3) LT clones are no thx ;)
This map looks good in space terrain. I would consider this map superb 9/10 if all the edits listed above were made.
|Thanks a lot guys. Nice site btw Panschk.|
Haha i actually have versions without gas at some expansions. Instead of posting that now i will make some crucial changes you guys suggested then post it again.
Thanks alot, i appreciate it.
|6 gas is not enough. LT has 10, too, and is ok balance wise, plains to hill has 12 etc... It does not matter that much if it is 4 or 2 players, as most 4 player maps are played much in 1on1, too.|
Well as I said, if there were a min only expand directly in front of the main, zerg would still have to 3-hatch expo, but at least it would bring him an other mineral income.
|Ok, I made some changes and added decorations. |
Took out gas nat, added gas expo outside choke tried to help the 3 hatch thing but its still a problem.
And the floatable expos i forgot in this version but in the next you will see a mineral patch so they cant land.
I really think the decorations made it easier on the eyes. Oh before i forget, the obs version has bad triggers in it, dont bother, i will fix i for next version.
|I should probably find a place to add another gas.. I just realized there are 2 for each player if no one has mid.|
|The natural gasexpansion is too exposed imo. Just add a wall where it is this black stuff right now (solar something, dunno, I use german version), and it will be easier to defend the natural. By moving the natural expansion a little bit towards the choke I think you could fix that 3-hatch problem too.|
The top left and bottom right looks really useless now. I personally would like the idea of semi-air, having many islands and not too many expansions that can be reached without dropping.
If you don't want that, you could add a gas-only expansion in the corner, won't be used very much, but would at least fill space a bit.
-Made the corners 6 mineral patch and gas expansions
-Tweaked the Gas natural
-Changed Solar Array to a high platform wall by nat
I never wanted the gas nat to be too easy to take, and now i think it is, but its ok imo. Its reminicent of Ash rose because it has an inbase min nat and by the choke there is a gas nat. I never intended it to be like that either.
|I just added the reeplay of me against Yenku. I think the wall greatly helped, The middle is open to flanking enough space in the mains. I don't see any problems with the amount of gas. It was a nice PvP. Yenku had the advantage at the beggening, but having expanded quite fast, and teched, the game has turned in my favor. geegee =0|
|The way it it now is a clear improvement over the old versions imo, but it has so much money in the mainbase(main minerals+natural+min only) that in many many games no one except the zerg would even need to expand elsewhere. The main is 8/1, nat is 8/1 and minonly 6/0. How about making it 7/1, 5/1, 6/0, taking a "real" expansion would be more needed. |
|Thats asking alot from me. I hate having mains with less than 8 mineral patches. I may consider it for the final version. |
Haha I thought I had that game in the bag, I let off towards the end, then he came up with all these freaking guys and pushed to my base. Whatever, it was just to test the map, it was fun though.
Any other suggestions/likes/dislikes about the map?
-Added min patches for anti-floating
Panschk (or any admin), can you remove the obs version? I have a bad version in it, i will replace it soon.
|sometimes people act as if floating cc was imbalanced or anything. Having it on a gorky-like natural is ok, but it begins to become too much imho.|
|In your opinion of course.|
|The above wasnt supposed to be rude, its just that i think its fine how it is. |
I finally gave my rating, I think its close enough to the final version. Im giving it an 8.
Btw, i played another game on it PvT, it was good, we used walls with tanks and I won (surprisingly i was P). I think the map turned out ok, i will make last version sometime soon.
|On the image it looks like there is no gas on the buttom start location?!|
Place it on top for optimal gas income btw!
|Thats odd, the image got cutoff. But yea, i will change geysers and maybe minerals for optimal use for next/last version.|
|These cutoff happens if you got wrong doodads on the map, sometimes its not openable with STaredit then too. Just delete some doodads you were working on, or delete all, safe the map, and set them again with staredit, then scmjpg should make no probs :)|
|This is the last version. Until 2.0 at least (Probably won't happen unless this map is a hit among my friends)|
Hope you like it. Oh, I'll update obs when I get to it.
|I really like it now. Looks great and seems interesting to play. I wonder how it plays if a T gets nukes with all those catwalks, that may be reeeeally entertaining ;) gj!|
|Thanks for all the comments guys, I wouldnt have spotted all my errors/mistakes if it weren't for you. Panschk, this site rocks! Its the only good melee map making site in english.|
|This map looks really solid now :)|
|I hate to keep boosting this map to the top of the forum, but I am working on the final version after playing many games on it. I had one concern with the map, the two passages outside the middle expo weren't used as much as they could be, and I also saw a lack of expansions, so I was wondering if it would be smart to add mineral only expansions in each passage. Tell me what you think.|
|You could delete the central expansion and add min-onlys at the left and right edge of the passages. (like that-> |E | | E| <- |=wall E=Expansion ) and maybe you cut off the diagonally catwalk in the center a bit to improve movement.|
that are the only changes i sugguest. (i especialy don't like the center expo, but that's my personal taste on every center expansion ;)
|btw, it's good to see mapmaker improving their maps again and again, i like that :)|
|Yeah deleting the middle expo might be good. Also instead of two walls in the middle havin just one, seperating the left from the right side of the map might be cool.|
Go to that link for a pic of how it would be with 2 paths an expansion on each side.
Also, tell me what you think about the min only expansions at 4 o clock and 10 oclock, I changed them for optimal flow. (also the catwalk is an odd terrain and messed up building space)
Tell me wich version you like more, not judging by looks, judging by the middle, both versions will look the same when im done excluding the middle.
Note to self: Fix Solar Array in middle for 1.7b
|BTW i have to add 2 more gasses somewhere ill find the best spot for that if i stick with the new middle.|
|comsat on right center exp? make so that you dont have to guess where to place cc :P |
perhaps making that center wall a bit shorter so there wont be such obvious disadvantage in accidentallly pushing down the wrong path? i dont know, i havent sat infront of my staredit in weeks now :PPPPPPPP
|I opened up the middle wall as much as I could without affecting the expansions and there is only one spot where you can fit the CC due to the solar array, and thanks for the comsat tip. I forgot about that.|
Anybody have a preferance on which version is better?
here is the link again if anyone missed it: http://www.staredit.net/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=13392
|The new one is better, but i still shing you should break up the wall at the edges, making small passages through it.|
|I like the new version. Don't forget to update all melee, obs and picture (And make sure obs version works, I know there are some users here who don't^^)|
|True, the new version is best yet. keep on editing!! :)|
|thanks for more positive feedback. Image updated, melee updated and im working on the obs version. |
next update it will be user-final.
|obs version up and running enjoy. But I would like one or two mre comments plz, also, i added gas in the expos surrounded by the low rusty platform stuff. I did that to compensate for the loss of the gasses in the mid.|
|did u try pathing through the center? you want the spaces in the wall, it looks nice, but you dont want your army to get stuck in the center cause of tight passages.. |
i was also thinking that 4 islands actually is alot, but i take it from your playtesting that they work properly.. :7
|I was gonna surprise you guys but since you mentioned it yes, I was thinking of making the islands towards the middle just walled in expos that you dont need air to reach, tell me what you think.|
I'll decide whats best for the wall, Ill do some playing in there with a friend, ill make a mini micro game for it.
|i think islands in the center should stay, otherwise the islands will be too close to main and too far from opponent. the corner islands i would much rater see something else done with in such case. also, cant you make the islands a bit smaller instead of the second mineral block? it disturbs my estetical eye :P *sorry* ^^|
|on a second look.. the corner isles are too far away so nvm. the center can be ground expos yes.. try and give an image and we'll see :9|
|"also, cant you make the islands a bit smaller instead of the second mineral block? it disturbs my estetical eye :P *sorry* ^^"|
No need to be sorry your swedish (i am too yet i live in america).
Ill do the best i can. with the expos
|schysst. bott där länge?|
|no i dont speak swedish, i only know a few words. my dad can speak it.|
|The center expos fuck pathing up when you walk between them, and WHY IS THERE UPGRADES RESEARCHED BY DEFAULT. It ruined the entire game on this map and it is very very bad. |
Even made me consider if this map should not be on the recommended list anymore.
|well, about the upgrades i have no idea what your talking about.. they are all set on default. |
its still beta, i never got the final version out.. and unless people want me to do so, i probably wont.
i dont even play sc anymore, i do it mostly over summers and long breaks.
|Another recomended map with mistakes. The upper expand with minerals only is not very good for terran base with addon, the terran should move his base prety low to make an addon and that makes the minerals more far away. And the bottom expand with gas is not very well protected. The "wall" is not finished to the space. Zerglings can pass trough the hole, and mayby marines too... Look GMCS.|
|Ops, sorry about the zrglings, they can't pass there, i've just tested in game. Sorry but the stareditor shows diffrent things...|
I think this is final unless you guys see any major problems. I think I fixed the mid, now only 2 islands. Other various tweaks done. Hope you like it =D
|omg update for #207 :D:D:D|
|yea, I have recently interested with SC again, I finally got the nerve to finalize the map. Its been worked on for almost a year.. Just like noname's strawberries.|
|I would like someone to comment on this.. I think the last version is deserving..|
|did u fix the upgrades thing? because that was redicolous in game. the stim was researched and siege mode was researced.|
|i think storm was too|
|im pretty sure they dont work, i just played a game as each race and its all ok.|
|well, im done with this map, gonna work on my other one now. no one seems interested with this anyway|
|Nothing to improve, maybe some more doodadas,a s the decoration only seems to be made with terrain. also the single highround dot near the center catwalk on top is srange|
|oh, its the pic, i updated the map but not the pic ;D|
|I like it. If we don't seem interested it because there's not much crtiticism to give anymore. I will be sure to play it sometime soon.|
|On such a rich map, you need more space for buildings. |