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Last update for (2)Angband 3600 ft. 1.2 : 2007, 05, 23 21:11
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2122 (2)Angband 3600 ft. 1.2 128*128Nightmarjoo0.4final

The map has been rated 68 times and got a total of 26 points
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Comments:   GMCS (3 elements)


Nightmarjoo
ok so this is like my first island map ever, I think^^

A couple things to note: 1. I don't remember how many minerals in that big long mineral wall thing there are, there are 16 of them and I don't feel like running up to my computer and then back down to my mom's to tell you guys the values -_- I do know that the lowest valued one is 120, there are a couple 240 320 and whatnot. There are 5 1500 there.
2. lol apparently neutrals cannot have their large sprite collision box outside of the map, which resulted in me using 7 1500 temples as a replacement for two 5000 ones, although I did that too on its other side. The reason for this large hp wall (splash will rape it) is to keep an emphasis on island play.
3. The reason for the gas of the nat being far away was to slow t a bit, I believe tanks would be strong on this map, so I did that to try and lessen their tank count early on. Of course this favours zerg somewhat, but I made gas elsewhere all reqiure 4 miners for optimum, which would hurt zerg.
4. I suck at symmetry, and I didn't use any inverts, which resulted in things needing being moved around, resulting in big symmetry defects. I don't believe them to hurt the gameplay at all, but please make me aware of any positional imbalances which hurt!
5. To further the island effect, I used many tiny unit ramps, as well as that tight middle passage to keep large units from roaming the map easily.
6. The swarm in your main cannot tank your miners nor the building. With the SW swarm, tanks just outside the swarm can hit your cc, but nothing inside can. If swarms hurt t the most, then it just hurts a race strong in this map, and certainly not lethally, hopefully^^

lol not having my internet = making more maps^^ Also, potentially there could be 127 more Angband maps, and there probably will be! Over like a really long time though^^
Nightmarjoo
o and the main has 15000 gas the nat has 10000 gas, all other geysers are 5000. I gave those two a lot of gas to keep those bases important throughout the whole game.
Nightmarjoo
ugh, bump! I almost commented my map off the list lol... I wish other people would comment maps as much as me, and I don't even have my own internet/computer atm -.-
LostTampon
why dont you use the symmetry tool? would help you much ;P
Nightmarjoo
use symmetry tool for -f(x) = f(-x) symmetry? I don't think so, you can't as far as I know -_-

Also, SYMMETRY TOOLS ARE FOR NOOBS, REAL MAPPERS MAKE THEIR OWN MAPS
LostTampon
download the latest version of the scmd2 symmetry tool and get surprised :D (you can check another box with x/y symmetry now, meaning that you have your -f(x) = f(-x))

Click me

btw, using this tool is supporting the mapper (even experienced mapper) a lot. you can focus now much more on your concept and layout, counting tiles is history.
modified by LostTampon
Excalibur
This map is da bomb. Really cool with the low ground main/nat and the high rest of the map, usually air maps arent like that.

Seems alot of new maps are really good. Ex is happy.
NastyMarine
whoa joel your execution increased so much. (FINALLY :D) I honestly am tired of spells in maps but you seem to know how to place them nicely, though i dont think some of them should be soo close to the edge of the map imo.

idk if you have read.. but i remember sp or panschk or some1 explaining htat those stairs on the platform cliffs are different when u compare them. I havent tested it but one is bigger than the other.

nice map though. I like it better than the other. This one has alot more terrain variety and a very unique feel too it. great work joel! w00t!
spinesheath
As far as I know the stairs actually are equally large, but the pathfinding is pretty bad in tight areas. All units (except for the Ultralisk, I think) can climb those staris, but for one direction you need to block the way back to actually get the unit to climb it.
So I would stick to normal ramps, you might block them partially if you really want them tighter; maybe you could even find a nice extended terrain version that is tighter/smaller.
Nightmarjoo
lol well after I made Muse and few people liked it I didn't make many maps at all. But my understanding of mapping got much better, I just didn't make maps^^ Then when I made the maps after that I either had a concept in mind I really wanted to try which didn't work, or I was lazy about the map or something.

ZOMG LostTampon, it can do that?? h4x... But on this map it still wouldn't help, I still would need to mess up the symmetry somewhat since I didn't want inverted ramps. Yeah is sounds helpfull, but also sounds like it makes mappers lazy, and if they get lazy about one thing, they could lazy about another, and eventually everything is lazy and the maps are all boring. ie, see my above comment^^

Nasty what do you mean about the stairs? I don't remember ever reading anything about them, please find it or whatever and enlighten me (and other mappers!).

"I honestly am tired of spells in maps..." noob

"but you seem to know how to place them nicely..." thanks, random ftw! (ok let's put some dwebs here! and here! why? idk... and here too!)

Thanks for the compliments, Nasty/Excaliber :)

About Iuppiter, lol well when I started it, I was gonna try and do something similar to (2)Passage-Immortality, with the map being land but being an island in the sea, then I broke it half with a river, and then into 4ths with a river, then tried some concept with the mains in the inner corners, but for expo room with that concept a (4)map was impossible, and for (2)map would have bad pathing, so I started over entirely on the same map, and eventually the whole original concept dissapeared. With this map, I had absolutely no concept in mind whatsoever. I just said, ok let's make a space map! And for a dungeonesque effect let's make it lowground with high around it, and with lot's of stairs, and why not have highground on all sides of the main, and have a nice path around it, ok let's make a nat over here, and let's give it a cliff and add some holes to the highground here and there, oh noes tanks too strong let's make geyser far away, oh noes if I replicate this main/nat to the other side they are way too close, and if I have longer paths it would have even paths and fuck pathing, oh noes let's make it island! And then, let's put an expo up here! Hey, a mineral wall would be cool, then we can have the expo shot at from behind while keeping the main islandy, oh noes when replicating it I somehow fucked it up, oh well symmetry is for noobs anyway! Ok what now? Hmm let's have a lower than lowground expo, that terrain looks cool^^ Oh noes all this adding of stuff is messing up my highground decoration I placed early on, h4x! Goddammit! Fucking shitting turd fuck... oh yeah let's play with this lowground expo thing, yay it's using up a lot of room of the map with all the ramps and whatnot... Oh noes when replicating these ramps are being a fucking bitch, why can't they invert themselves? I'm not taking the time to use inverts... Spines will say I'm pro when he sees a map planned without inverts! Nevermind, no he won't, he'll just say nothing -.- Ok is this thing done? Hmm let's add an expo here, let's make it mineral only. Nevermind, let's give it a geyser behind it, that's pro :O Ok, pro! Lot's of space left, plenty of expos, not too many though, is tight and open, is it finished? Oh wops forgot to add doodads everywhere. WTF highplatform has no doodads? wtf was blizz smoking when they made this tileset... Ok let's add as many doodads as possible.. wtf why is space gay with doodads? Is the map done? zomg the map has no spells, let's add spells! idk why, but every map has to have spells nowadays! Let's use swarms, since TINTBSO to use swarms, zomg wtf was I high on when I made this map, this symmetry is horrible... I guess no swarms since the two sides would be too different positionally... ok let's add dwebs instead! random ftw! ok let's put some dwebs here! and here! why? idk... and here too! Oh hey let's put a random swarm in the mains! All my spell theory crafting is useless since idk island balance or play worth shit... oh well, I'm sure the swarm will get used in some game some day if anyone ever plays it somehow! Oh yeah, let's keep it island and add 4 5000 hp temples to block the path, and let's put a stasis cell thing over here to keep people from taking that base over there too quickly... terran h4x oh noes! Oh well. Are we done? Oh yeah, let's go test to see if the spells and shit works. ZOMG WTF why do half the neutrals not appear? lol why are their collision boxes so fat? I guess they have to be inside the map fully lol... hey that temple has a great collision box size... wtf how many 1500s go into 10000? err 7! Ok is map done? zomg wtf staredit swore to me that lings couldn't fit past that mineral block in the southern mineral wall expo thing... ok let's add two random tiles there! Oh hey these ones looks ok... gee gee pathing. Ok let's go upload the map to bwm when my mom isn't home!

lol and that's how I made the map. I guess random works better for me than planned concepts. Of course spines would argue, but he doesn't even make maps so w/e :) <3 Spines~

edit: lol I guess spines was maing a comment while I was typing the map's history :)
If pathing is bad with those ramps, then it only encourages air/dropping like they're sposed to. I'm pretty sure all "large" units cannot fit, and I think I remember vults being able to fit if you jiggled their movement the way you jiggle a key to fit into a lock when the weather changes :)
modified by Nightmarjoo
LostTampon
wow thats a lot of chars
Nightmarjoo
lol my spells discusion in that thread is far longer ;)
tktkvroom
wtf is a symmetry tool?
good map, me test it, great work, looks much better. Random name, going lil over teh top with webs & swarms
Nightmarjoo
lol in a hurry tk? btw the next time I post a newspost, "wtf is a symmetry tool?" is my title regardless. Thanks for compliments of course :)

Name is not random! Just because you don't understand is doesn't make it random!

Random spells FTW
Arden(WoF)
I like this map... but as always i need to citique it somewhat. I think the bases are a little too harassable, what with all those open cliffs surrounding your base. Then again, its all part of the concept and I think it still works well. I like the incorporation of flanking areas separating the expansions, and I like the options provided by the "hidden gas" expansions. Well done.
spinesheath
I DO make maps, just very few, and no melee maps :p My current UMS project will take me some months if not years^^
Nightmarjoo
lol spines what kind of ums takes months if not years to make? And is it going to actually be fun to play, unlike most umses?^^

"but as always i need to citique it somewhat" I like critiques, even if I can't improve the map in question I can keep it in mind when making a map in the future :)
As for the harassable thing, heh well I have no idea how I could fix that^^ Unless we can make walls in maps which air units cannot pass through, heh.
Thanks for compliments too :)
tktkvroom
yes me in hurry good map, me sex it tonight, gogo gl hf gg
tktkvroom
mmmmmmmmmmmmm ok
y protoss buildings in a space map? use terran plz

Kakura what what? in space, man these guys get around

good idea with the gas behind the minerals but um make like 1 or 2 be worth like 10o or something

the swarm in the main maybe relocate closer to the minerals within range of a ht or lurker so mineral harass will be used more

woah woah woah I also just noticed those urason dudes, joel space isn't a good environment for them its not cold enough & no snow :D

also maybe put a swarm behind the minerals that are really straight I mark on gmcs * so harass that spot alot or maybe some dwebs there so they can't harass good

Oh & someone here like spines or nasty told me long time ago that minerals on the edge of the map equal bad so to block the gas maybe use a doodad
modified by tktkvroom
Nightmarjoo
The critters would make more sense if you knew what Angband was.

Eh, idk about your swarm ideas. I see what it would add, but god damn would it make tvt a bitch. Not to mention tv!t =/

Why not use protoss buildings in a space map? No terran building has 5000 hp, nor has the collision box size I need.

With the minerals on edge thing, what they were talking about is very different from what's going on here. Not to mention removing them is silly since it's first a mineral only expo -_-
tktkvroom
well...wtf does name mean?

can't you change buildings hp?? TErran buildings look hella more sexier

& sheit I wanted to get reps on this tonight but grandpa is stupid & told on me for being up last night at 3am old fart
Nightmarjoo
No, you can't edit sprites. I wanted to use burrowed ling neutrals in the map, but I don't think that's possible either TT

lol give your grandpa clorophorm, then he won't be able to mess with you :)




Thangorodrim.net
The site there can do it better than I can. Angband is the fortress of Morgoth; Sauron was Morgoth's most powerful servant, but just a servant to Morgoth. Morgoth was one of the Valar (gods of Tolkien's world), but he turned evil. A rogue based game, Moria, was made a long time ago. Its graphics were all ascii based. In it, you won by killing the balrog of Moria. Angband, which came later, but was heavily based off of Moria, is the same sorta thing, only you win by killing Morgoth. It does not follow the story of Tolken's Silmarillion at all, nor does it follow really any of Tolken's writings, but it includes many characters from them and whatnot. So in the game Angband (ONE OF THE BEST GAMES EVER MADE, IT'S ACTUALLY MORE ADDICTIVE THAN SC, AND FAR MORE TIME CONSUMING), you start out in the town level, and there's a down-staircase. Every staircase takes you down 50 feet. Dungeon level 1 is 50 feet under the town. Sauron is on 4950 feet, and when (if, lol) you kill him, a down-staircase appears, and you can go fight Morgoth on 5000 feet. I'm not sure if you can go lower then, or if you can't go lower until Morgoth dies (you can keep playing after you win, but you can still die^^, you can find really rare artifacts and stuff and keep killing the uniques), but there's a total of 127 dungeon levels. So you run around the dungeon leveling up your character, finding better equipment, finding rare and powerful artifacts, and whatnot until you can kill Morgoth. The farthest down I ever got without cheating was like dungeon level 40something, and I got raped (I lost two characters of the same bloodline to this(when you die and load the dead character's save file, you can start a new game with the characters Monster Knowledge, ie what the creatures attack with, what they resist, where they appear etc) by a Multi-Hued Ancient Dragon =/ The game is hard =/
tktkvroom
wtf I'm not reading all that
Nightmarjoo
lol :)
LostTampon
hehe yeah, nightmarjoo no offense, but your texts are very reader-unfriendly :P
Nightmarjoo
lol I know :)
Ok, what about the map? =/ Nasty said it looked nice, Arden said it's easy to harass, anything else?
tktkvroom
i had sex on it with marja she said she didn't like it :D
Nightmarjoo
idc what Marja thinks, she's a whore :O ;)
tktkvroom
lmao true dat, I WILL try to test this tonight, I'll try to get my team to play on it. I know edd the ]i[ team beaner wont mind playing a new map cuz he is always drunk & daren is finaly opening up to new maps
Nightmarjoo
thanks <3 Hopefully I'll get my internet back by tonight, or maybe in the next coupla days... then massive testing can happen!
tktkvroom
give me say 30 mins & I'll get on BW to start testing it gogo gl hf gg
tktkvroom
well... it was to early for anyone on my team to play & I try like 3 times to make a pub game 1:1 play/obs & right when ppl enter they say wtf? then leave or wtf kind of name is that & leave so I'd try more but mom is Nazi & I dont even get 30 mins to play so up to you ppl to test it :/
Nightmarjoo
meh I want to get some games on this map, but chard didn't want to play an island map -.-
Nightmarjoo
erm I just realized that I hadn't uploaded replays for this map, coulda sworn I had... oh well I uploaded 4 of them, they are however for the original version, and not the new version I just uploaded.

Changes:
SW back expo moved a little for more room.
dwebs removed in open areas.
dwebs added behind back expo mineral lines, defense can still be made on the other side of the mineral line.
for the back expos, one block now has 40 minerals and another has 120 minerals, this is to allow the wall to open sooner.
one of the xel naga temples has been removed, there is only 1 now instead of 2. There still are 7 protoss temples there; this means units with splash could attack the protoss temple and kill all 7 at once for 1500 hp, or kill without splash the 5000 hp one instead of 10500 hp worth of protoss temples.
dwebs added to the narrower part of the middle, this is to change how pushing will function when crossing from one side to the other (tanks can fit in a single file line through that path in the very middle).
Stairs have been edited so that the staircase where goons will willingly go both up and down it are in both mains and both back expo backdoors. On both stairs goons can go up it, but on the bottom left to upper right staircase a goon will only go up it if you block the bottom behind the goon with another goon =/
Nat cliffs reduced, there is now less room and fewer places to place tanks.
dwebs placed at the top of the ramps for the corner expos.

I think that's it, I lost a lot of sleep on this, I hope it helps and makes Avaton better than it would have been on the older version.
NastyMarine
FIX THE NEUTRAL BUILDINGS. You stacked them i guess on accident. I had to tell players to play a different map. joel, you have to be more smart about those things :/
Nightmarjoo
are you blind? please read my first and last comments...
Nightmarjoo
Ok I watched the replays. Ugh there were so many it took forever to watch them all -.-

Nasty how many players did you tell to play a different map? So now because of your ignorance and the players' inability to read as well my map gets virtually no testing? Thanks, way to prove how great motm is. Again, every argument I made against motm has come true.

In LGI's game, I don't think his enemy knew the map very well (lack of scouting/expoing etc), one thing I noticed is how gay the colours are for the races. I'm changing to the default colourset. It was virtually impossible to tell the difference from the grey of the space tileset and LGI's enemy's units... I liked what terran did in his main, the way he placed his buildings he could easily defend his main when he lost his nat late game lol. Also, because of his placement, the swarm would have not done much had LGI dropped in it, only lings could have moved at all, if even them. Although building on the swarm as LGI pointed out on gg.net would be more so effective. I thought it was funny, must have been a bitch and a half for LGI, ultralisks can't attack the area behind the corner expos lol, this resulted in a lot of dead lings and a useless expo >< From both my experiences and from watching LGI's game, it seems that zerg taking the gas first and not the minerals of the nat with second hatch hurts mineralwise, so in getting more gas they sacrifice minerals. So I'm definitely not making it so you can't hatch at the gas first with a mineral or w/e I was thinking about a while ago. In these games the neutrals played no part, but that's just the way the players played =/

I got 2 hours of sleep last night, I wish people had used the 1.1 version =/ From these two reps I can determine that 50% didn't use the new one ;) Yay for LGI for knowing how to read -_-
Lancet
Nightmarjoo get some sleep. Nice reps but please get rid of those critters, it's hell on the minimap! Flying the barracks to zerg's base and making rines & bats there seems an effective strategy against an unwary foe (you can land it in the swarm!). As usual in island maps if you don't stop protoss early or go wraiths & valks later terran is overrun by carriers.
LGI
@Nightmarjoo, before my second round i come to BWMN and i download THIS melee and obs version of the map. After that i went in single player mode to test some the center what units can pass and what units can't. Ofc i pick zerg. I was on the bottom location, type all cheets for money, fast buildings and map. Then i've made 6 lings and i went to knock out the first Temple natural buildings right next to the Xel'Naga.

AND WHAT A SURPRISE!

There more then 8 Temples stacked at one spot! I say more then 8, because i killed 8 and then didn't had the time to kill it 12312831209 times. So i actually don't know how many Temples are exatcly stacked at one spot. So i killed the Xel'Naga, everything was fine there, i go checked to upper locations temple - THE SAME SHIT!

Then i went to battle.net and i told this to NastyMarine and ofc, he warn all people about this and let them pick between your map and Nazca whit telling them the issue on your map.

Thats all.
Nightmarjoo
well read the description where it explains the stacked neutrals and why, was no accident... and there are 7
Nightmarjoo
Lancet the critters are both fine and staying, part of the map's theme, which has been explained already. The rax thing is only effective if the enemy is bad at scouting. The carrier thing only works if the terran sucks at macro/scouting. Also, landing in the swarm would be rediculously stupid, unless your enemy had no lings at all =/
NastyMarine
"Again, every argument I made against motm has come true."

and what is that? stop being an idiot. MotM is fine. your just not giving it a fucking chance.
Nightmarjoo
wtf my map has enough spam on it already

stop being an asshole, I am giving motm my full support, I am only pointing out that I had before we started motm possible issues with motm, and they happen to becoming true. That's not my fault, and I'm not blaming motm, it might with all its issues be better for bwm than motw or motf. I'm trying to get motm to work very well, I'm working with you not against you -_-

Are you becoming grief with opinions? =/
Lancet
"Also, landing in the swarm would be rediculously stupid, unless your enemy had no lings at all" Of course, but it happened in one of the replays.The point it that Zerg can chose to concentrate on expanding and making drones. Also, after you land you can produce firebrats.
Nightmarjoo
yeah but it didn't do very much, even though I had to wait to kill it by making lings. It only did as much as it did because I was stupid, among other things.
LGI
@Nighmarjoo, and how all gg.net players should know about your little stack building secret? Nobody was warn about this and do you think they will say about your map when they find out IN A TOURNAMENT?! They will say "this map sux FFS!", which is not true at all. This map is good, but the stack natural buildings shit... It doesn't make any sence at all... It's not nessery either.

And my final words are.

If you want to have good progress in Avatan Tournament don't give them SO EXPERIMETAL MAPS! You will only get bad feedback and maybe next time you will have less players :( .

I really don't want this to happen in Avaton! Atm, it's the key to make some maps populer. Here you have NAZCA is already known map and played everywhere! It's a public map in the bulgarian server Headoff, everyone play it and like it!

I wish there was a stastic about maps just like in PGT, here in Headoff to see how much user maps are played!
Nightmarjoo
Yeah, I had overlooked the fact that the mappers wouldn't take the time to learn some features of the map, all the other maps had been pretty standard, or been simple in their non standard features. We were going to solve this in the future by writing a small description of the maps in the newspost.

As for the neutral thing, I never wanted to have to stack over 2, but I cannot fit a xelnaga temple against the map, its collision box is way too big, the protoss temple however has a much nicer collision box, but I don't want the neutral wall to fall so fast. So, either they use splash units on the stacked temple, or they kill the non stacked one.

Don't yell at me for this map being in Avaton, look at the vote =/
flothefreak
but LGI is right, you will hardly get many people to play this map a second time, not everyone is reading all the newspost stuff.
if you wanna keep it a strong wall, add an additional mineralwall with ~48 each, or at least split the xelnaga temples like on (2)crush it, so players SEE it.
Nightmarjoo
I don't believe it was necessary, but for the players we cater to's needs, I edited the map and made that neutral wall just two xel naga temples, by moving the platform against the wall so the sprites didn't have to be against the edge. I still prefer it the old way but w/e, I spose it was necessary.
There is nothing stacked, just two 5000 hp buildings, you can get through if you kill one.

Also I changed player colours so there are no weird colours so the minimap is fine.
Nightmarjoo
o and what do you guys think about my bwm logo? Yeah it's big, but it doesn't cover anything important, and it has bwm really big -.- The other logo we have just is hard to see, it's so small =/
Nightmarjoo
zomg BWM LOGO what do you think about it?
Nightmarjoo
WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT THE LOGO IN THE PIC UPLOADED FOR THIS MAP, "I LIKE", "I DON'T LIKE", "IT'S OK BUT I PREFER THE OLD ONE" -.-
Alumni
"IT'S OK BUT I PREFER THE OLD ONE"

i think your idea with the stacked neutrals in the same spot x 7 is really creative but it seems to confuse so many people in gameplay since they're used to destroying a building and seeing the debris or mark it leaves but instead another full HP'd neutral stands there hahaha.

you should use that stacking idea again but maybe not 7x because i think the players who played it either got confused (didn't know if that was supposed to happen) or got annoyed at having to kill the 'same' building 7 times to get through.
Nightmarjoo
lol I think ima just leave it the way it is, map is complicated enough already I spose =/
Antares
you need to have less or halfly see through logo to reveal more.
Nightmarjoo
maybe it's just space terrain, but I thought it looked ugly when it was transparent, but it's np to make it so.
Alumni
I think the best option would be to take the old logo and just resize it to be twice the size. wouldn't that be much simpler? :)
modified by Alumni
Nightmarjoo
...but it's not amazing like mine is oO
Nightmarjoo
Just uploaded Mistrzzz's reps for the map. Thanks to geLLie who emailed them to me, and of course Mistrzzz who played the games :) These were from Avaton.
Nightmarjoo
that last game wasn't bad, the pvt mistrzz vs M1-Marine.
...the pvp was hillarious, mistrzzz wins against like allout zlot with 1base carrier ;D ><
Nightmarjoo
Ok so I uploaded two more games, they are on the latest version. They aren't great replays, probably boring to watch since we were both offraces and haven't played much sc lately, and on an island map, and a relatively unfamiliar map =/ The pvz shows how not to play it as protoss lol. Apparently going goon/zlot/scout off 2base 1 gas isn't very good >< The tvz is better, but although my t is much better than my p, I don't really know how to play t island very well, I try a failure of a 2port to FE. Game is 50 minutes long, ugh I couldn't do anything because my army was massive, but if I left my base it'd get raped since I didn't have supplies making my units, and I had units all over the place, didn't use many hotkeys til the end =/ But the replay just shows some mechanics of the map, as does the pvz one.
Nightmarjoo
O and the dweb above the gas does play into the game.
Nightmarjoo
For Avaton players:

Angband 3600 ft. 1.2 - What to look out for that a "normal" map doesn't have.
The tiny staircases, only ultralisks can't fit up them; be forewarned that staircases which go up to the right are the same size, but without trapping a goon with another goon or something it will not voluntarily go up it, this staircase is used only in the two backdoor pits, and a nonbuggy one is available for use. There is a swarm in your main, tanks cannot hit your command center nor your workers. Disruption webs, behind the backdoor expo to keep tanks from being too strong there, and above the nat geysers to limit fire/trap some units attacking from there. There are other dwebs, but they are not in such critical locations. Nat gas is far from the minerals, this is intended to slow terran, zerg can take it pretty quickly, but a zerg who takes gas before minerals kills his economy. The mineral count for the southern backdoor expo for each mineral is as follows, the first value being the top most block: 240, 320, 430, 466, 740, 5 blocks of 1500, 740, 464, 430, 320, 120, 40. The values are the same for the northern expo, with the 40 being the topmost mineral block. There are two (no stacks in this version) xel naga temples (5000 hp each) blocking you from the most of the map, destroying either will open up the path. A 2000 hp prison cell neutral blocks the backdoor expo off. Main geyser gas is 15000, nat is 10000, others are default 5000.
Nightmarjoo
Shortened for Nasty:

Angband 3600 ft. 1.2 - What to look out for that a "normal" map doesn't have.
There is a swarm in your main, tanks cannot hit your command center nor your workers. Disruption webs, main ones behind the backdoor expo to keep tanks from being too strong there, and above the nat geysers to limit fire/trap some units attacking from there. Nat gas is far from the minerals, to slow terran, a zerg who takes gas before minerals kills his economy. The mineral count for the southern backdoor expo for each mineral is as follows, the first value being the top most block: 240, 320, 430, 466, 740, 5 blocks of 1500, 740, 464, 430, 320, 120, 40. There are two (no stacks) xel naga temples (5000 hp each) blocking you from the most of the map, destroying either will open up the path. A 2000 hp prison cell neutral blocks the backdoor expo off. Main geyser gas is 15000, nat is 10000, others are default 5000.
RaDiX
main workers tankable -> IMBA!!!!!
NastyMarine
i heard at least 2 players complain about the mineral lines. They said they are bad? i guess they are talking about the 9 and 3 expos
RaDiX
I obsed a game where dude tanked all the minerals from main... In 7'o clock.
Nightmarjoo
Slay vs Naib is a very good game; the other one with Slay is also very good, but they used 1.1 version :(

LGI's game is good too, I doubt zvz will get much further than that.

The game with vincent is pretty much how I expected pvp to play lol >< I like vincent's comments, and from them I gather he didn't know the map too well before hand. He said things like "fucking critters; a swarm here t.t" etc :)

flo's game isn't bad, but besides the fact that mutas are better than scouts I don't think it shows much^^

Radix do you have the rep of the game you obed?
modified by Nightmarjoo
flothefreak
that game IS bad. there was nothing really happening. i just uploaded it as a matter of principle
Nightmarjoo
thanks though :)
Crimson)S(hadow
ultras dont fit? T-T what about reavers or tanks?
Nightmarjoo
tanks do, I haven't tried reavers lol
Nightmarjoo
Logo updated, thanks LGI/PlaZma for the gosu logo :)
spinesheath
Ultras are the only unit of that size, all the other units are tank-sized at maximum.
Goons are of the same size as tanks, but they are a little weird when it comes to creating them via triggers; but that shouldn't matter here.
modified by spinesheath
Moebius
The new logo thingy is better, you can see more of the map.
Nightmarjoo
lol the part that was covered wasn't very important though^^
trcc
gogo ursadon invasion
Nightmarjoo
lol nothing else to say about the map? TT
Nightmarjoo
Well I put this to final because it won motm and no one seems to have suggestions for improvement...

Nasty had mentioned possibly enlarging slightly the very center's choke, I felt this wasn't necessary, but really don't have any reason against it. What do you guys think about that? As is all units as far as I know fit through there fine. I'm not 100% positive about ultras. I guess I should look into that, and enlarge it only if ultras don't fit, as they should be able to.

Some people were concerned about the main's minerals being tankable. idk what do you guys think? I think that as it's island you will expect that kind of harass and will prepare against it, the way you prepare for harass on the cliff in lt etc. Also it is excessable by land if you destroy that neutral, and destroying that allows access to the expo by land, players will of course destroy the neutral sometime soon. No way can any tank hit workers of the main and at the same time be out of range of other ranged units from the main itself; I don't feel this is too critical... but at the same time a 3 dropship harass of the nat, main, and backdoor expo with tanks could be fairly strong... but static defense can defend from all of those scenarios, idk for sure, feedback please.

Also, any other suggestions/comments would be appreciated. I haven't noticed any issues in the map at this point, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Please, no comments about "failed concept" etc, that doesn't help -.-
Nightmarjoo
bump :)
Testbug
why is this map "good"?
i don't know about island maps, and i don't know ahy do i hate this 128x128 2 players map, don't understand what are those dark swarms for, or maybe i don't like how does it looks, i did not want to post any comments becase saying "i don't like it" was all i wanted to say, and i consider that as spam, but can't believe this thing become MOTM, watched the remps and get bored, played the map and did not understand it.
i don't know how to play island but it was very frustrating to play on it.
i readed the comments but can't understand why is this so "good" can you please tell in few words?

i can edit this comment if you find it offensive, don't want to have problems in this comunity (well, i only have 2 maps, so i'm no1)
flothefreak
i cant say much than: i played it a few times, and watched some replays and for it is an island map: i like it. and if you dont understand this map, well - this isnt the fault of the map.

oh:
center choke is fine
untankable minerals would be nice. it doesnt hurt the map right now, but if you'd be safe from tanks, that would be much more comfortable.
modified by flothefreak
Nightmarjoo
Testbug your comment isn't at all offensive, you worded it very nicely :) So you don't like the map, well not everyone likes every map, big deal.

Lemme try and briefly explain why I consider the map to be good. The map tries a fairly unique execution of concepts. It's been tested for bugs and shitty things in the map, and has been edited a couple times for better balance based off of replays, not just theorycraft. I don't even understand island balance very well, few people play island maps so I don't get a chance to do so either. I think knowledge of island maps is important to know when playing an island map ;) As for why the map is good, it's unique and doesn't have any major flaws balance-wise. The ramps/chokes are intended to reinforce island play, but keep the semi-island option. idk it's hard for me to explain what makes it good, probably since I'm it's creator =/ Who knows, it might be a bad map. But I haven't seen evidence of that yet.

Thanks flo; yeah I think I'll try and make the main minerals untankable. Might be hard, reducing the highground could create bad mobility, and the minerals can't really be moved anywhere. Maybe I'll put dwebs on the cliff, what do you think about that?
testbug
oh no, high platform forom mine mineral fields are ok and needed for mutalisk.
maybe you can do it unwalkable or place some d-webs there.

the minonly is ok to be tankable if main is not.
if you place d-webs in minonly then that high ground wil be useless.

what i found is a terran lifting a cc to the high ground expo will take some map control, or a flying factory? that xel naga temple is not hat ard to break.

what i wanted to know was: what makes terran bad in this map? i found the siege tank drop and SCVs building turrets too powerfull.

you have not say what are thos dark swarm for?
and carriers owns terran in this map
modified by testbug
Nightmarjoo
The dark swarm is just there to add something to the map, I could take it out and it wouldn't change much, but I like the things you can do with it early in the game (later on you can cover it or block it in, the former being more effective).

The only cliff I'd be changing is the main's, ima try and completely make the main's minerals safe from tanks using dwebs.

The dark swarm possibly can hurt terran the most if it is used right. The far geyser slows terran gas a litte/lessens minerals depending on how they use their scvs. All the expos are easy to storm or muta or through some way or another harass/kill scv. The many ramps/stairs make moving large armies difficult in most places, terran's army is usually the hardest to move around imo.

I don't think the map in its current version is too terran friendly, perhaps lnept or Scout think to the contrary, but neither have mentioned anything like that. I mention their names because I know they are familiar with island play.


  
4
Replays


--Nightmarjoo[BA] vs DnA]3rdSin[(1on1, 1.14p)
--Smaug[HCFM] vs lnept(1on1, 1.14p)
--Smaug[HCFM] vs lnept(1on1, 1.14p)
--Smaug[HCFM] vs lnept(1on1, 1.14p)
--M1-MarinE vs SLaY[F2F](1on1, 1.14)
--LGI vs sT-AbY(1on1, 1.14)
--xLo.Mistrzzz vs Style)p(Tito(1on1, 1.14p)
--xLo.Mistrzzz vs M1-Marine(1on1, 1.14p)
--Joel vs chard(1on1, 1.14p)
--Joel vs chard(1on1, 1.14p)
--flothefreak vs get.infested(1on1, 1.14)
--browarjestspoko vs nf_Vincent(1on1, 1.14p)
--LGI vs uT)PtiYo(1on1, 1.14p)
--SLaY[F2F] vs Potiguar(1on1, 1.14)
--SLaY[F2F] vs Naib[F2F](1on1, 1.14)

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