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Last update for (2)Defection vBeta : 2007, 04, 14 14:20
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2138 (2)Defection vBeta 128*128Novos0.4experimental

The map has been rated 49 times and got a total of 21 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


5mana
Hi, I'm the creator of this map. Novos is my Bnet name. This is the first map I've made. I tried to make the map as symmetrical as I could, but I'm not sure how everyone does it.

My goal, while creating this map, was to encourage more varying kinds of play while still being able to play standard. I tried to think how these elements would affect each matchup. In PvT for example, if it is possible for Terran to get tanks faster because of the addons, Protoss might not be as effective using 2gate goon pressure. Addons were placed outside the main so they cannot too easily be taken advantage of. Or PvP, perhaps it could be a mind-control war, where the Torrasque shifts back and forth between the two players. These are just thoughts and ideas that crossed my mind while making this map; I'm really not sure whether or not it would play out like that, because this map still lacks extensive testing.

So these are the obvious features of this map:
-The building look. I had the theme of a city in mind while I made this map. The buildings and units are leftovers after a war.
-Neutral units: All neutral Terran units are normal units, but all neutral Zerg units are hero units. Seiged Tanks sit on each tower, and a total of 8 Battlecruisers. Density of these units are higher in the center. In the center, there is also a Torrasque. Top right and bottom left have the same units: 2 Devouring Ones, 2 Hunter Killers, and a Kukulza Guardian.
-Neutral buildings: Aside from the Power Generator and Psi Disruptor, I've included Creep Colonies, addons for Terran, and two Command Centers. The creep colonies must be destroyed in order to use some of the addons.

Addons include: Machine Shop, Control Tower, Covert Ops, Nuke Silo, and the Comsat Station.

What are the purposes of these features?
Creep Colony gives Zerg more places to build things.
Neutral Units may be mind-controlled.
Addons can be taken over.
The two Command Centers may be infested.

Any critiques/suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Edit:
-Added minerals under the backdoor power generators for the main, inner ones value at 16, outer ones value at 40.
-Fixed Vespene Geyser positioning, added a Geyser for the expansion outside the main, now wondering if I should take out the Geyser at the backdoor, or maybe reduce values for both.
-Made one of the main walls thicker, as so seen by so many maps. To my knowledge tanks cannot be placed there.
-Few minor positioning changes and terrain changes.


modified by 5mana
DeSade
Omg buildings look soooo cool!
Maybe do some more decoration and this map will be a nice one for sure.
Alumni
This is one of the most creative designs on a map that I have seen ever! Fighting in a city haha that's sick nasty. :D
Excalibur
Concept has been done alot just not on melee.

Maps a little tight and the neutrals can be killed pretty easy and give pretty much any race hell with half their base blown open.
Nightmarjoo
erm well I see a bunch of things.
1. The mains' formations is in the middle of the base. This means some of your buildings will have to be behind your minerals, that will be very awkward. If you place everything so it's not behind, then that's great, but you leave a lot of room for a hidden drop or something.
To fix mainbase size, just pull back the neutral blocked exit closer to the corner, and place the formation/sl closer to the corner.
2. Map will have bad pathing because of the neutrals. I don't really see how the neutral blocked exit of the mains adds anything; just leaves a possible gaping hole, idk it's fine I guess.
3. I suggest working on symmetry a little more. I like the positioning/shape of blue's main a lot more than red's, they really ought to be the same. As for symmetry, just count squares =/
4. Don't you think it's a little unfair to give terran free minerals and time by placing those addons? Don't you think it's a little unfair that protoss can posses hero units? And what, all zerg gets is a creep colony in a fairly non strategic place where if they wanted to waste money they could place sunks?
5. The nat will be incredibly hard to defend since it has holes in back, and no tight choke in front. Zerg really can't safely fast expo like most zerg do. Also, the nat is mineral only, no one is going to risk their game on taking a mineral only =/
6. I don't think you realize how hard defense will be in general. That backdoor will fall very quickly. In NastyMarine/Arden's map BattleGrounds 2.0, which has a 2000hp neutral wall, it dies very fast, and it can be hard to defend against early attacks; the mains potentially have like 4 entrances, defense will be hard, the agressive player will likely win everytime; zerg will probably just 2hatch ling or something like in zvz, they can't take their nat, and it will be easy to abuse those neutrals with fast lings.
7. I guess the city theme is sorta nice, but I think you could have executed it better. I think you have too many experimental features here, I think you should consider balance a little more when you make parts of maps. Think about, what will players do if I do this?
8. On the other hand, for your first map, it is not bad. Besides the things I mentioned above, you could work on decoration a little more. I see lots of blank areas of just dirt, or that blob of mud in blue's main; you can mix up the terrain more to get it to look nicer.
9. Hmm I think the corners may be somewhat terran favouring, considering how tight the region before the expos is. I do like how the expo with two gas, which is very important, is easy to harass with that cliff. But with these corners, I think you should pick a design, and make it equal for both corners. A little more symmetry, just counter squares, will help the map be nicer: positional imbalance is easy to overlook, but it can really hurt the gameplay of a map.
10. Also, gas issue, see our article database on the right side for what it is. Essentially, for this map, the concern is that gas on the right mines slower than gas on the left. It's not so much a problem all over the map, but within the mains it is important.

I think what you're doing here is cool, but work on positional balance, the symmetry of things a little more, and perhaps use fewer experimental things, atleast until you get the basics of mapping down. I look forward to seeing your future maps, perhaps you will amaze us with some really nice and unique concepts in the future, once your execution gets better.
spinesheath
Those buildings are incredibly blocky. There are much better blends for this type of extended terrain; for example get some from Tux's "Rush!".
boongee
those buildings absolutely do not belong on a melee map
Nightmarjoo
Not true boongee. As long as they are used as a form of decoration, and don't interfere with gameplay, why not have them?
LostTampon
i like the idea of having different decos on the map :D

but these neutral terran addons and units arent useable i think
5mana
Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Yes, the Terran addons function properly.
Thanks, I'll check out "Rush!" sometime.

The gas problem was the first thing I went about fixing. If I read the article correctly, all the Geysers should be about even now.

Symmetry still needs a lot of work, and I think I'm going to change the structure/pathways between the towers surrounding the neutral Command Center. I'm more focused on concept right now; I'll try to make it symmetrical little by little, but I think the symmetry is good enough to play, and other factors outweigh the symmetry. I want to playtest it more so that I can determine what exactly I need to change/balance.

The idea for the Psi Disruptors near the center as a block was that when a player gets comfortable enough in macro, they could destroy it to reinforce quicker.

In defense of my experimental methods, I think it is justifiable to have addons because taking it would give you another area to defend, making your base more spread out. Also, in order to obtain the first addon (the Machine Shop), you must first kill the Creep Colony (meaning you'd probably have to build a few marines).

Unit choices and amounts for the neutral units probably need some tweaking; and although it is possible only for Protoss to get these units, you could simply kill it before they get a chance to mind control it, which gives players another factor/priority to take care of. These units are only single units, and I believe that they can easily die to bad control just like any other unit.

Yes, I suppose Zerg gets the least advantages of the three races. Free creep and Command Centers to infest aren't that special compared to addons and units. However, if you took away all the neutral units and addons, leaving only the structures that block the main, which race would this map favor? Before adding the minerals at the backdoor route, it really was easy to tear through with Zerglings. If I recall correctly, Zerg has the greatest mobility of the three races. Although I guess that can be argued...

(Convincing? Maybe. But I'm hesitant to let go of those things ><;;)

P.S.: In a playtest, it was incredibly fun having that Torrasque. I burst out laughing as I sent 6 hallucinated Torrasques and watched the Terran run scared. I still lost though, because I was way too behind in macro, but it was fun nonetheless. XD

Again, thanks for the constructive comments!
Lancet
Very original and interesting map but playwise I have two concerns.

1) The neutrals at the mains are placed in the direction the units will be moving. As a result of this your newly made units will not exit the base by the choke but will try to cross the neutrals and it will be a pain trying to make them exit the main.

2) Protoss can mind control the cruisers and guardians and zerg has access to two comand centers it can infest plus the creep on some sites. I don't think the addons compesate terran adequately.

But I really like the idea behind the map, please keep making them and thanks for sharing it with us! Also If you have replays in this map you should post them.
DeSade
I know im not better but those discussions on maps that haven't been played yet seems quite senseless (especially cause this one looks so nice and just has to be made playable).
Thats really a lack on this else so adorable page imo.
( btw pardon my english ;) )
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