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Last update for (2)Crystal Valley : 2007, 05, 10 12:16
|mapID||Mapname (comments)||map size||Author||Rating||Type||play type|
|2207|| (2)Crystal Valley|| 128*96||Lancet||0.2||experimental|
The map has been rated 29 times and got a total of 5 points
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|I have come up with (as far as I can tell) a new tactical Starcraft idea and I made this map to put it into practice. It is based on the fact that there are sprites that workers (SCVs, drones and probes) can pick up. These sprites are the powerups (sprites > units sprites > neutral > powerups: in ScmDraft2) but I think it also works with the gas orbs, sacks and tanks (neutral > resources). Picking up these sprites, however, makes the workers useless to mine and if a worker comes close to one of them it will pick it up regarding whether you want it or not. The powerup sprites cannot be targeted (the gas things have 800HP so it is almost the same).|
So I thought, what if you do a say SCV drop on your opponent's mineral line and your SCVs are carrying powerups (say crystals)? As your SCVs are killed they will drop the crystals but then as your opponent's workers try to mine they will pick up the crystals and become worthless for mining!
I uploaded a replay against the comp where I do just that at 11:50 min on Toss's nat and again later. The replay is not very good but it makes the point. I am sure that many of you can come up with much more competent variations of this idea at the right time during a game.
As to the map it is wide open but the expos are near cliffs, very vulnerable to Terran tanks. West has access to the South plateaus (blocked by Crystals) and East to the North plateaus. The crystal formations can also provide shielding to units and you can move them around with workers. If a set of workers carrying minerals is killed their minerals will drop forming a barrier that protects the units behind (providing that you have laid out your workers correctly).
Please let me know what you think of the ideas and of the map.
|well, do you HONESTLY want to sacrifice 8 (in words: EIGHT) workers to maybe get 8 workers useless for mining? then your enemy has 8 scouters which still can attack in his army. and you lost 8 scvs, lol.|
also, have you tried what happens if you put such a sprite-carrying worker into a assim/extrac/refin? does it stay useless? sorry, but this idea is kind of senseless. may feature a little laugh when sacrifying 8 workers to drop onto the enemy, but no sense behind. also, have you considered that it will make FREAK OUT every player who tries to maynard his probes/drones/scvs to a new expansion? they will automatically pick up some crystals. if this would happen in a serious game to me, i'd probably immediately quit. i like new maps, but bugs like this make it unplayable.
what i like is the idea of this huge cliff connected to you mainbase. it makes the standard expanding dangerous. i dont know if it works out, though
|Great idea! bwmn ftw!|
And the map is... nice, though it will come down to massive cliff dropping in all T matchups.
(regarding the look it's beautiful :))
But I thought sprites were walkable?
modified by DeSade
|flo, display a little imagination please, a crystal-bearing worker drop can have a crippling effect on your opponents economy! When you drop say 4 vultures to take out workers how many can you take out before you are wiped out? If you drop 8 crystal carrying SCVs into your opponents worker's line your SCVs will destroy some workers and when they are wiped out the crystals will cripple the rest. The whole point is, when your attacking unit dies, it cripples an opposing worker. Of course in the replay I may have done it too early and too sloppy, better players than me will do a better job.|
DeSade, thanks, those sprites if they are close enough to each other form a barrier that cannot be crossed by land units.
I will answer more questions later, I have to go now.
|lancet, display a little serious thinking in terms of effectivity please. first of all, if there is only 1 or 2 defence building, you will kill at maximum _1_ enemy worker. and then, even if your enemy picks the crystals up: YOU FUCKING SACRIFICED 8 WORKERS YOURSELF. YOU DONT GAIN ANYTHING. YOU ONLY LOSE WORKERS WHILE THE OTHER OPPONENT CAN STILL USE THEM FOR BUILDING, SCOUTING AND EXPANDING. YOU MAKE A VERY BAD DEAL.|
and if there is no defence, any drop (vult/mm/rvr/storm) would kill those 8 enemy workers easily, and probably more. plus, if it is only workers, you probably wont have to send army to kill the drop - which you'd need versus a 2rvr-drop, or a mm-drop for example. but the main point is YOU LOSE FUCKING 8 WORKERS YOURSELF.
besides, you cant maynard to other expos!! would you EVER play a groundmap where you cant maynard your probes to new expansions?
you cant just make a map with a new idea that just doesnt work out for obvious reasons and say "use your imagination". that is like, if a buisness consultant would say "sell chocolate bars for 100$ each, just imagine what profit you'd make!". there is also a line for things that dont work in maps.
modified by flothefreak
|the only thing i could imagine is in a normal map, which uses this feature to block an additional small route, but you'd have to 'sacrifice' 3-4 workers to gain access.|
|I must agree with flo, dropping 8 workers won't do you any good. You are NOT severely crippling his economy, as you have lost the same amount of workers yourself. The time that you needed to pick up those crystals, load the workers into the dropship and fly to your enemies base also is added to your loss of economy.|
4 vultures usually do more damage, also (mines!). If they wouldn't because there is too much defense, your worker drop wouldn't do more either.
8 workers unable to mine against 8 workers dead, drop tech, and quite some mining time wasted.
|It's not that bad imo, 8 crystalized workers would basicly mean halting a z expansion for a long time. And if you attack at the same time he'll be slowed since he's forced to make units out of larvas, but I agree that this will rarely be used ;P|
|lol who is JoelZerg? h4x? oO|
I think the idea of these crystals is ok, but I wish they were all destroyable.
Mains are small.
|Guys, guys, calm down, sorry if I offended you flo it was early in the morning and I was half-asleep when I posted that.|
Now first of all, the crystal-worker drop does not have to happen AT THE BEGINING of the game like in my poor replay. Once you get your economy going and you have a SURPLUS then you can consider this strategy. And you don't have to do several, you can do ONE.
The point is (please read carefully) that you have inactivated his NON-SURPLUS workers with your SURPLUS workers. You sacrifice workers you do not need for your economy. In other words, instead of making some extra offensive units you make workers and use them for an offensive drop. Your opponent now is forced to make new workers and he/she has to deal with a number of workers he can't use for mining, and all at once! Think, he has a bunch of inactive workers(for mining) taking up control space and he has to make more. You have just freed 8 workers worth of control space and you can make units and you have slowed down his economy. Am I the only one who sees this?
Finally, you can also send crystal-workers to the nearest expansion BEFORE your opponent takes it and plant them around the area where the command center/nexus/hatchery will be built slowing down your opponent.
Also remember my second idea in this map, using these sprites as a movable crystal wall. That is what you can use your inactivated workers for but it is not easy.
Finally guys, I am extremely excited about this idea (I actually lost sleep several nights when I got it). As far as I know in years of Starcraft and thousands of maps NO ONE has thought about this. It took me weeks to design this map plus I did a lot of research, give me some credit, OK?
I will answer other questions shortly.
|Flo raised a reasonable question regarding whether crystals will get in the way of workers on their way to a new expo. I designed the map in such a way that this will not happen BECAUSE of the map.|
OK, say you are East. The only crystal wall you have to worry about is the one defending your nat's entrance (and believe me it is a good thing it's there!). But once you clear it you can send workers to the 2 south expos with no problem (I placed the corridor between them on purpose) and you can send workers to the two North Eastern expos (gas and mineral only) also with no problems. It is only in sending workers to West's mineral only and closest gas expo that you run into problems.
Now, your opponent may use workers to rearange the layout of the crystals and mess you up. That is another matter.
It is true that in this map you will have to use some of your workers to clear crystals for example if you want land access to the plateau (like I did in the replay) or those in front of your main, but that is the point of the map.
Come on guys, the map is reasonable, it balances the wide open spaces with cliffable expos and it introduces new ideas in game play.
modified by Lancet
|lol surplus workers? Not found in sc.|
So um, with these things, only way to drop them is by killing your own worker right? lol
It's a nice concept, but I don't think this was the best use for it. idk, tell me how other games go and experiment with it. Could be the next spells in maps fab kinda thing ;)
|Whenever you got "too many" workers, pull off another expansion. If you don't want to waste those 300/400 minerals, hell, just send them to harvest. Even if the way is long, some income is better than no income.|
The only possibility when this could be useful is against a very low eco/agressive zerg in the beginning. And in that case you'd be by far better off just dropping 8 marines and/or using those 8 workers as support for your marine/medic army. (I don't assume that you'd want to get shuttles versus such a zerg as a p) In that case, you could really consider carrying some crystals into his base. But forget about the eco drop...
You could also have your scouting peon carry such a crystal, and the probes that are usually sent with an early zealot. But no drops!
--Lancet vs Comp(1on1, 1.14)
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