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Last update for (4)Circular Ruins : 2008, 01, 05 09:15
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
2451 (4)Circular Ruins 128*128devilesk0.4beta

The map has been rated 59 times and got a total of 25 points
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Melee

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You can rate the map here. Chose a grade between 10 (best) and 0 (worst).
Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


devilesk
One of my first attempts at making a melee map. I'm a noob and I appreciate any and all criticism.
Starparty
try using the space you have on your map into making each area similar-sized to the equivalent areas in the other bases. Also try making the distance to each base approximatelly the same. After that we can discuss the layout and different decoration techniques.
Excalibur
Hey baby. Fancy meeting you here. ;D
Try the mirror tool on SCMDraft, and download the inverted ramp maps from here just in case.

Also:
More deco, more d00dz-dadz.

(:
IAMAHIPO_ocolor
Ugly generic map
flothefreak
shut up.

the map basically is LT with minonly backdoor^^
evil_DNA
Color, why are you always sayin crap ?
You can always post feedback, but the only comments I saw are spam.

I agree with all that was said previously.
spinesheath
t map, every single expansion has a cliff.
devilesk
Okay, I've made some changes trying to take into account all of your comments. Thanks for all the feedback and I'll keep trying to make this map better.
LML
yeah, this looks more balanced.
flothefreak
map is too open, not decorated at all, naturals are too wide. positional balance is bad...
devilesk
Okay, I made some changes. Is it any better?

I don't want to really decorate it a lot with doodads and stuff with different terrain yet, because there's a lot of changes.
Crimson)S(hadow
agree with flo, i spy LT
Crimson)S(hadow
looks kind of tight
Crimson)S(hadow
looks kind of tight
devilesk
Which areas are tight and how should I go about fixing it?
modified by devilesk
flothefreak
i think for this question you would just need a dictionary; to look up the meaning of the words "tight" and its antagonist "wide" with its verb "to widen something" (like, for example tight paths on stuff like bwmaps).
devilesk
No, I think you misunderstand. I know what "tight" and "wide" mean. I'm just confused, because your first comment said my naturals are too wide and the map is too open, so in my edit I tried to narrow them. Then Crimson said it looks tight and I'm not sure which parts of the map he's referring to.

So was it that I just did too much in the edit? I'm just trying to get some clarification as to where tightness is; the naturals I just changed, or some completely different area that wasn't mentioned.

Also, is it the temple squares in the middle that makes it too tight? Should I remove them? I previously expanded them because of the comment that the map is too open.
modified by devilesk
modified by devilesk
flothefreak
8[
devilesk
I just want more help and better criticism so I can keep improving this map :(
modified by devilesk
flothefreak
well, if you lack basic knowledge about broodwar gameplay and balancing, you will never achieve to make a decent map.
devilesk
Okay, I'll never achieve to make a decent map, but can someone point out and explain the problems in this map?
Moebius
There's nothing really unique about it. Like flo said, it's just a "LT with minonly backdoor".

Your use of terrain if very bland and I don't see any doodads apart from the 3 in the middle which are yet again LT ripoffs.
devilesk
I know the terrain is bland right now and lacks doodads and the design is not unique, but I want to focus on the balance first before I go into aesthetics.
Lancet
This is your first map so you are all excited about it, and that's OK. Go ahead and play it and have fun (and load some replays). But you are going to have to forgive some of us who have seen hundreds of maps. We look at yours and sort of say yawnnnnnnn. We have seen it all before and better executed.

A map does not really have to be totally balanced by race or position. Some of the best (and fun) maps ever made are imbalanced. Having said that, you do not want to tilt the balance too much to one race or position. Also lacking a revolutionary new concept you should try to make your map "pretty". For this symetry helps (also helps with positional imbalances) so you should try to download the mirror tool.

In your map all the gas nats and mineral only expos behind the mains seem tankable from cliffs or from positions where no land units can get to them, this will give terran and edge. Gas in South East main will mine slower than other mains. The minerals near the center may create pathing issues in ways that are not equal for the different positions. The shape of the plateaus and surrounding hills look a bit akward. Look closely at some of the maps in the database and read some of the articles on mapmaking so you can get an idea of what we are talking about.

starparty
Guys, you really need to learn to shut up. If you dont wanna help him, then dont fucking write anything. Its reeeeeeeally just as simple as that.

About the map:
The better maps you see on this site, and also proffesional maps in general has been made by players who dedicated alot of time intp making every tile in the map perfect. You must dedicate that kind of time to:
* tweak every expansion into having the same size and distance from the main bases
* make the mainbases equally big
* Try to open up the center if you want to keep your ruins - Just cut down a bit of the big rock blur you created around the expansions.
* Make sure that the expansions in the center have equal distance to each equivalent base and make sure units dont get stuck in the minerals when travelling from base A to B (try to make room to put the minerals more into the rock wall instead of out in open terrain).
* Try to make the distances a little bit longer by moving the ramps back a bit on each base, since its a 4 player map.
* Also try to figure out something to do with all that unused space. You will loose some by moving the ramps back and widening up a bit in the center, but there still is some left over.

The map is better since i last commented, so just keep working on it i suppose. Even if it might be somewhat an LT clone, its good for practice anyway.
modified by starparty
devilesk
Lancet and Starparty thanks for your comments.
spinesheath
You should get rid of that statement:

"and also proffesional maps in general has been made by players who dedicated alot of time intp making every tile in the map perfect."

Look at pro maps, and look at their extended terrain. Certainly they didn't make every tile perfect.
Starparty
dont forget to point out my spelling errors while your at it. The relevancy is about the same :(
devilesk
Okay, another update. I put in some doodads and tried incorporating what you said in your comments.
spinesheath
Oh, yeah, "really" is written with only a single "e".

Nah, I was being a little sarcastic since I really hate how all these "pro maps" have these uber-lazy copy-paste issues. I point it out whenever I see it in a map, but it almost never is fixed. Kinda pisses me off. It would be so easy to do...
So, please don't take it personally.

But yes, this is not really related to this map...

Oh, btw, since I already am off-topic: How come you are back, SP? What have you been doing all that time? :p
modified by spinesheath
devilesk
Update

Placed two min patchs of 0 mins in each back expo and went through the cliffs to make sure tanks can't fit there.
modified by devilesk
devilesk
Uploaded an obs version

Update
Slightly tweaked the tertiary expo min setup for 9 position to fix pathing
modified by devilesk

The middle expos are on high grass and the ruins in the middle are high ruins
modified by devilesk
starparty
now we are getting somewhere. move the geysers in the center closer to the walls. The gas issue doesnt matter so much on them. better but them away from walking paths.
devilesk
Okay I moved some of the gas in the middle back, and because of a suggestion by Chef I added a little highland and ramps connecting the nats to the island.

Also, should I add a neutral building to block it off?
modified by devilesk
SiaBBo
Terran can defense his bridge when siege tanks on that cliff. Centre mineral fields are not same like others.
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