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Last update for (4)Vapor : 2011, 02, 24 20:53
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
4220 (4)Vapor 128*128Jungleterrain1.0betaground

The map has been rated 36 times and got a total of 35 points
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Comments:   GMCS (13 elements)


JungleTerrain
Map i made, been working on it little by little for awhile. Im not done, as you can see. I realize symmetry looks alrite so far, but i would like it if anyone can point out positional imbalances.

Im still looking for a good expo setup, am debating whether there should be 3 gas per player, and no normal mineral onlies(ignoring the middle mineralonly expoes).

The mains are spacious, but are they weird? The nat might be awkward, so I would like some feedback on that. Haven't tested wallins for nat, such as for PvZ, but i would like to think that the whole natural expo setup works abit like the natural expo from Outsider, with the vespene gas geyser becoming part of a wall in the case of PvZ FE.

Name is inspired by awesome soccer cleats Mercurial Vapors :P
The middle mineral onlys are 15 stacked, i think (750 or 500 minerals each? i dont remember XD). Therefore, these expoes, if taken, will provide a HUGE inflow of minerals, rivaling the accumulation speed of resources as those of fastest maps, although the expo is extremely hard to secure, and splash damage would prove to be more than just a pain for the workers mining there.

Ive been looking to try to add some expo to the highground in the middle, but cant decide where. Suggestions plz! Are the middle expos too impractical? IDK! gegenore
SiaBBo
There is no 3rd gas. You can put like at 6 o'clock your 3rd gas and maybe remove minonly if they are too close to each other. Middle expos doesn't make any sense.
JungleTerrain
Thats cuz i havent added the gas yet -_-
Just imagine that those mineral onlys on the edges have a gas. Ill edit it later.

And the middle expos, would they make more sense on the highground, where Ive suggested moving them already?
modified by JungleTerrain
LasTCursE
wow katrina style :P love it !
K_A
I think expos at 3 and 9 have too much space behind.
Nightmarjoo
As you finish the map, make sure to protect the nat a little better with the terrain, better facilitating a wall for pvz. Right now you can make a decent ling-safe wall, but not a hydra safe wall (all of the compontents of the wall can easily be shot at from an angle (thus avoiding cannon range).

Be careful with the area outside the nat. I dunno what you plan with it, but if you leave it as it is it'll be way too spacious (wastefully so), but I see no good spot to place an expansion in there (to use the space). You'll probably have to mess with the middle a lot to get a balance between how the middle and outside the nats areas are used.

I don't think you can place four expos in the middle. Maybe you could place something like the center expos in 815 (close to eachother by air and harassable by same cliff, but far from eachother by ground (as opposed to continuing the four-fold symmetry where the expos would be close by ground)). This would dramatically change the pathing from center-based to side-based (e.g. rush hour is side-based). However from the bridge and ramp placement you have it almost seems like you were aiming for somewhat side-based pathing anyway, so I think that would work well with what you've got so far. If you made it side-based, I'd definitely make what are currently mineral only expansions gas expos (cliffable would be nice).

Make sure to pull the main formations away from the map edge a little bit. The nats are ok as they are.

For the nat I almost want to suggest reversing the placement of the mineral formation and the ramp, so for example bottom left's nat mineral formation would be vertical, and bottom right's would be horizontal. I feel this would make it easier to deal with the issues with the nat I listed earlier. I think this would also give you more freedom for what you can do with the area outside the nats.

Make sure to add some more mud decoration for lastcurse, the little black thing with spinning things on top (2x2 doodad) for testbug, and trees and critters for me.

Only positional issue I see at the moment is around the side expos/bridge, like K_A said.

Many stacked small value minerals is a neat concept, but not one that in my opinion fits in this map. Try to form your layout around that concept rather than trying to fit it into a map whose layout you're designing from the ground-up and are unsure about.
x_species
very cool man gg :] awesome ;]
Kinosjourney
Love the map, but theres alot of wasted space.
If you manage to make use of it this will be a fucking awesome map :D
gnom
I agree with x-species. Though jungle tileset is overused imo, this map convinces me! And it is not even finished ;)
looking forward for the final.
Kinosjourney
Also, whoever said nats needs more space is insane. They are already too big :(

I suggest you make the nats a bit smaller.
modified by Kinosjourney
Nightmarjoo
lol wasted space, it's an unfinished map.
JungleTerrain
well ok, im really liking the idea of switching the nat's resources and ramp placement, as nmjoo suggested.

Ill try to make the wall for pvz FE more "protectable" with some terrain editing probably, maybe doodads might work well, too.

The thing about the concept is that i wanted to use the highground a lot, as well as the sides, but always leaving the middle with its own strategic importance in the form of flanking opportunities, or simply leaving a shorter, simpler route to your opponent available. Now, the thing is that this map has taken me such a long time to get it to the point it is at now(not because of my inability to create a map with good symmetry, but because i would only work on it for about 5 mins and then stop), that along the way, i have changed many of the map's features, from expo placement to highground. One can say that i've deviated from my original concept(so much so that I don't remember what it is), that it has produced something which seems to contain some unorganized, unharmonious elements.

I'll definitely take suggestions into consideration, and will surely implement some in the next update. gracias :P
JungleTerrain
And I'll try to go Orgasmic with the decoration when the time comes.

O, and @Kinosjourney, I usually try to make an area in the map a little bigger than i intend it to be by the final version(achieving this with terrain tile copy/pasting/index/subtiles), because when the time for decoration comes, i tend to add unwalkable doodads around the edges, basically acting as a sort of wall, although it looks prettier :D
modified by JungleTerrain
Kinosjourney
You should move the bridges closer to the nats so you get more space to work with at the third, also you could cut down a bit on the water near the thirds at 3 and 9 o'clock :)

The nats are wayyy too big IMO, you could cut down on the size or change their layout.
modified by Kinosjourney
JungleTerrain
UPDATE:

-Starting Locations moved away from corners a bit.
-Natural mineral and gas positions changed from horz/vert to vert/horz.
-Nat choke little "longer"
-Removed dirt behind 3 and 9
-bigger cliffs overlooking 3rd
-cliffs closer to 3rd, and space left to intercept drops.
-removed dumb stacked minerals from middle.
-As a result of naturals' changed mineral/gas positions, the mains may be a little smaller, less comfortable.
JungleTerrain
Sorry if ive been sorta inactive, but im studying hard for finals and all that, so ive been busy. Forgive me for the slow update :P

Should i reduce space between nats and bridges? I have an idea for that space concerning an expo that i could show u guys later.
Is nat too big? Kinosjourney says it is, but he doesnt support his claim. would like more input on this. Are mains/nat comfortable? Do i need another expo, such as a mineralonly? comments plz
LasTCursE
Mains are fine they kinda remind of the Andromeda ones.. but i'm rly starting to dislike the middle now.. with those huge/odd ramps everywhere :/
JungleTerrain
"starting to dislike the middle now..."?
i didnt change the middle at all, except remove the minerals lol

and dont worry i have ways to go with this map.
LasTCursE
you made some of the ramps wider ^^
Nightmarjoo
Area outside the nat, the third, and maybe the middle still need some inspirational changes. Just very bland and vacuous atm.
JungleTerrain
i did not make any ramps wider where are u getting this stuff lol
and again, i asked santa claus to give me some inspiration/creativity and a BMX bike for christmas
Kinosjourney
You fixed the nats, they aren't too big anymore. But you chould narrow down the chokes a bit.

modified by Kinosjourney
JungleTerrain
hope santa claus gives u patience for christmas
Kinosjourney
Haha :)

I added some suggestions in the GMCS for you.
Gnom
@Kinosjourneys GMCS..
Dont you think that suggested minonly will be to easy to hold for T?
Its a difficult situation though, i understand your point.
Kinosjourney
it might be a bit easy to hold, but just reduce the mineral count if it proves to be that way.
JungleTerrain
im riding my BMX bike as i type this, so sorry if i haven't updated the map in awhile.
Kinosjourney
o_O
Kinosjourney
o_O

Accidental double post, damn :(
modified by Kinosjourney
freakling
Will there ever be an update?
jungleterrain
Update, -_-.
LasTCursE
i like the min onlyes ^^ :P
Freakling
The 3rds still look carelessly thrown in... Way too open and vulnerable.
JungleTerrain
its a contrast to the tight middle path
JungleTerrain
is it just me or when u click on the picture it still shows the old version?
Freakling
So you have a tight, hard to flank middle path and a 3rd that you cannot choke defend... That looks very T
LasTCursE
I think you should add more highground blend at red and teal's nat walls instead of that "hole" spammed all around the ground :D
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