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Last update for (4)Polypoid 1.22 : 2020, 05, 12 17:38
mapIDMapname (comments)map sizeAuthorRatingTypeplay type
5143 (4)Polypoid 1.22 128*128KM-4.2leagueground

The map has been rated 13 times and got a total of 54 points
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Comments:   GMCS (0 elements)


zladldduzld
still keeping working on this map, but it won't be finished until the deadline of ASL map contest ...

It is very plain map for 4 players, T>Z>P>T balance I guess, and yes very featureless
JungleTerrain
I like this map a lot. Symmetry looks good, spacing is good, pathing looks interesting, and it's in Jungle my favorite tileset XD

My only 2 points of feedback is MAYBE decreasing some of the temple areas in the middle of the map to open it up a little more.

And I hate the new remastered ramps but thats just my gripes.

Looks great
JungleTerrain
is this your map, zladldduzld?

Fixed the Tileset
modified by JungleTerrain
zladldduzld
thanks for your kindness sir
I thought I've selected jungle tileset category yesterday, but maybe my mistake :S

KM-, my author name is from zlald(in Korean keyboard, Å°¹Ö. pronounciation may be key-me-ing, thus KM)


= better image source

the temple areas are intended for overloads, but considering the pathway, it is somewhat inappropriate.. I'll try to expand water terrain of water-bridge-ruins areas and reduce the temple areas.

I also dislike remastered ramps :l
but WSH used them in (3)Tripod so I adopted too
JungleTerrain
WSH = Str18-02?

Some remastered ramps are okay, not all of them. I think the jungles ones are bad, but that's just me.

Were you going to make this in Twilight?
zladldduzld
WSH = Str18-02. Yes. WSH is initials of his name.
I could try mixing remastered and older ramps but... not enough time GG

twilight? nope. did I choose twilight tileset category?
JungleTerrain
Nevermind, I misunderstood what you said.

This site is old, you have to put in Tileset 2 times for it to work. Don't worry about the ramps, it's more just my opinion. And yes, the ASL deadlines are too short.
Freakling
As for the ramps: You need to manually fix terrain level bugs either way, so it's best to compose completely custom ones (using new tiles if you chose to).

Looking at it a bit closer I think you should move the ridges and particularly the high ground ovi spots around a bit so they do not hinder access to the centre that much, close position gameplay would be very linear right now. A good general design principle for 4 player maps is that there should be direct pathways from the nats to the centre.

I would also like to see more and better use of proper High-Temple-to-Cliff blends. You can find examples in such maps as Atlantis, Uzi Sara or the newest Kiseyras iteration.

modified by Freakling
zladldduzld


If I had enough time, I could rework on what youguys advised.
But because of my school.. and deadline of ASL map contest..

Just minor updated version :P
Freakling
Best of luck in the contest :D

Deadlines should be at least twice as long…
zladldduzld
Freakling / I saw your comment in TL that saying you've submitted 10 maps finally lol
I am looking forward to seeing many brilliant brand-new maps in ASL XD
JungleTerrain
Good luck in the contest!
sTy_leZerG-eX
Really like this one, sexy copy paste titles
sTy_leZerG-eX
Lol freaking you submitted 10 maps!!!??
Hahaha

Do you have a link for that comment?
zladldduzld
stylezergex/ team liquid - broodwar forum - ASL map contest thread, you've visited that page already :S

Jungleterrain/ thanks a lot haha

As I wished, this map passed round 1.
It was my goal in this map contest (because there will be a small gift for whom winned round 1)

and as I expected, the judges pointed out several problems this map containing(some bad looking square tiles, mining issue, ovy spots, not sufficient space for battle, ...)
.... but no bug fixing period they said :(
zladldduzld


what if?
mAziciAn
omg you passed too??
congratulation!!
I passed round 1 same like you.
Maybe you saw this map (name : Karma_TF) on EDAC. yeah.
Also I had been suggested some issue ... (its hard to saying. :( english is too hard for me)


ps.
아니 잠깐만 이분도 한국인이신데 괜히 영어로 말하고 있었네 축하드려요!!
Freakling
Congrats.

Since you'll have to remodel the high ground ridges and Ovis spots anyways, I'd suggest the following:
Start by drawing straight lines from antural to natural and then reposition the high temple spots so they are on those lines, giving you two separate, but about equal length, paths between close position naturals, which works much better for 4p maps (take care that shortest scout paths on auto-pathfinding are symmetrical between all positions!).
modified by Freakling
zladldduzld
Thanks for congratulations :)
and congratulation you guys too!

Freakling/ yes, actually I usually try to keep in mind that pathing method; separated, about equal length, symmetrical pathfinding.

so in this design, I first thought moving high temple areas(as shown above) would work well.
but then pathing through mineral only expo become problematic; pacing water terrain.

I have no good idea :S
zladldduzld


0.92v to 1.05v updated
: main's entrance (returned to non-remastered)
: mining issue
: pure sprites adapted
: decreased unbuildable tiles (from nat to geyser expo, middle)

modified by zladldduzld
zladldduzld


2019.12.09.

updated to 1.12v (normal version only now, no obs)

: mining issue, pathing route, etc..
: ovy spots at naturals are thickend
: changed rhynadon to ursadon (it's winter)
modified by zladldduzld
Freakling
Remove the Rhyna-/Ursadons or make them 5HP (8%) so workers can kill them in one shot. Critters randomly blocking expansions are just a source of annoyance at best.
Do you know if this is gonna be in ASL?
zladldduzld
I've recieved a message from 910(kangkuyol) asking to send the final version of (4)Polypoid until December 22nd.
I'm guessing that Afreeca will start the map test period from then on and that this map will be in candidate list.

I asked mAziciAn(3rd place) if he recieved the same message too. Unfortunately he didn't and recieved a mail instead, saying only 2 maps from the map contest will be tested.


Ok I will set their HP lower. Some degree of randomness is intended but not annoyance.
Freakling
I got the same message regarding Inner Coven.
zladldduzld
considering the recent two ASL map tests, yours and mine, and another one (from Str18-02, EarthAttack or someone else) seems to be tested.

Afreeca usually tested 3 new maps, with 3 players from each races.
three games for each TP, PZ, ZT matches, and each matches are 3 sets using all new maps.
Freakling
Is there any official source you could link? I'd like to see what the third map looks like.
zladldduzld
oh.. I'm sorry. it was a just my assumption :>
no official yet.

http://bj.afreecatv.com/afstar1/post/43806326
pre season map test tournament of ASL 8

http://bj.afreecatv.com/afstar1/post/35379431
of ASL 6

I was confused. There were only two map test period that Afreeca officially directed. I thought they did more than twice but these 2 were all(as far as I find).

All candidates of both map tests were not map contest winner, but just ex-season's official map maker's new maps.
So it could be different this time.
modified by zladldduzld
zlald
Oh I haven't uploaded ASL 9 version(1.22) yet

btw


kinda remake of Polypoid :l
want some opinion about high platform design, center design, adding ovy spots
JungleTerrain
Can you also add a change log for 1.22 if you decide to update it? :)
JungleTerrain
The space map looks tighter than Polypoid, mostly because of the middle. I think it look's fine, will probably play similarly except for the mineral only now having a gas. Maybe that could be a bigger change than I am currently anticipating.
My knowledge of the meta is a bit outdated so you can't trust everything I say in regards to balance xD

I don't see many other places where you could add overlord spots. Maybe adding a bit more clutter around the middle so you can have the same ov spots as the original. Another place could be extending the high platform clutter so that it overlooks the 3,6,9,12 o clock positions. A zerg could then keep a closer eye on that expo if their opponent decides to expand there.

now that 3,6,9,12 are on low ground they will be harder to defend by the primary choke. But they also have 1 entrance now so maybe it balances it out. I rather liked the low ground path leading to the 2nd ramp on Polypoid's thirds, but o well.

Are all gases 5000?
zlald
yes sir 1.22 version uploaded

I will soon upload newer version(1.3 maybe) of polypoid within first half of May
and add change log then (1.12 to 1.22, 1.22 to the latest)


about that Space map,
high platform expo will have 1000 min and 1000~2000 gas (like that of Sylphid)

LatiAs has pointed out that, space version has more positional imbalance. As I understand, he is saying about a player starting at 7'o clock can take 9'o easily when enemy is at 5'o clock. But enemy can not take 6'o or 3'o that easily.
I am considering twisting that choke clockwise bit more
or more radical changes.. (e.g. removing that high platform)
JungleTerrain
Yes I can see that being the case. That scenario happens often in maps with rotational symmetry and you aren’t paying attention to it. The difference in distance is to blame, they are not truly “neutral” expansions but rather “belong” to the player that spawns counter-clockwise to it.

What would you do in that area if you removed the high platform?
Freakling
The general problem we see with Polypoid, and even stronger with the space version and Escalade, is that the uneven distribution of high and low ground induces strong rotational imbalance. A more minor point that we also see with these maps is that direct access from the nat/main rally point to the middle tends to be blocked by terrain, which makes playing around positions harder by making alternate paths around the map longer.
Personally I would advocate for some significant concept/design changes, rethinking how different height terrain can be distributed around the map. Having higher terrain towards the centre (as on ROTK or the new Shakuras Temple, but also Gemlong or Sword in the Moon/Harmony) has some natural advantages as it draws strategic focus away from the expansions and direct routes along the sites of the map. High ground areas along the perimeter should be more evenly distributed (like on Gladiator or Dantes Peak, for example).
modified by Freakling
zlald
I don't know right now how to alter terrain distribution in detail. Removing that high platform ridge is to make positional relationship more symmetrical.

I thought such rotational imba could be adjusted by adding geyser on that high platform expo, nonetheless its amount is little (1000~2000), and rotating choke of the low platform expo.

Importance of center area was not that big in Polypoid, thus I agree with your idea.
I've tried laying valuable expo at lower ground and center higher, but then ovy spots be insufficient..

I will keep thinking over changing general design of that space map :)
Freakling
By the way, have you considered entering the STPL map contest, over on TL.net?
zlald
I've read that thread very long ago.. so I thought I could submit some new stuff, and was working on 3~4 maps simultaneously.
but due to my school schedule, and updating and testing polypoid for Afreeca team league, making new one is seem to impossible now :(

If I finish a draft of new map, I would submit surely... yes
the biggest obstacle is that, I have a test whole day on the deadline of that contest -_-
Freakling
It only needs to meet some basic standards of playability at deadline. Fine tweaking, complete debugging and eye candy can come later.
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