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::MOTW 51::

deadline to enter maps: 2005, 12, 17 (Year, month, day)


Here we go again ;)

NameAuthorDownloadvote(1., 2., 3. choice)
(2)my decembernonameMelee Obs Picture0
(2)Winter ParadiseMillenniumArmyMelee Picture0
(2)Star GatesRSCup.SpitFire[7x]Melee Obs Picture0
(4)Space Lotus 1.1StarpartyMelee Obs Picture0
(3)PermafrosttrccMelee Picture0
(2)The Moth--v|mOsQMelee Picture0
(2)OpusFidelisHofodomoMelee Picture0
(2)Hychapt 1.1ScoutWBFMelee Picture0
(2)The WalrusValugMelee Picture0
(2)Solar ImpactsiggeMelee Obs Picture0
(2)Dusty River2.0ScoutWBFMelee Obs Picture0
The competition is closed!
Comments:

panschk
I would love to nominate 45_minutes_of_fame, but not yet...flo make it finished ;)
ScoutWBF
this time I will add a map for "competitiv play" with all the standart crap you already know.

Hah should be freewin then shouldn't it? -_-;;
panschk
lol, go for it ;)
flothefreak
I removed Outlaw Anthem.
Starparty
too bad, since i added it.
flothefreak
shit happens.
I drawed the consequences of last week's motw.
RSCup.Spitfire[7x]
Who has added StarGates third time? o__O
LGI
Me.
LGI
Lol (4)Kin Dza Dza? I almost forget this map. I really didn't added in earlyer MotW, because i was waiting for some help from Listoric, but nevermind... Well i don't know who submit the map, but i will make a little update soon. At least i am going to make it look better.
panschk
flo has gone over 45_Minutes_of_fame again, right now it would be my favorite, because it has some pretty fresh aspects and I like that.
ScoutWBF
It looks the same for me like the version before just with a lot doodads that make the map extreme ugly.
flothefreak
I don't want to participate in MOTW right now.

scoutWBF: just shut the fuck up, or will you try to criticize me because I managed to create an allover map in about 45mins completely, without having bigger changes needed?
this would be slightly stupid
doodads are nice btw, fool. just go ingame and don't lame about images
LGI
It's very snowy week... :)
panschk
T_T

What's up flo`? did I miss something.
And somehow I start to hate ScoutWBF for his comments. They are 75% negative towards other peoples maps, stop hating please :(
ScoutWBF
I just dont like maps of other people and you should know that by now.^^
trcc
Well, scoutWBF at least US, we don't say that your maps totally sucks. Oops sorry, i just did. You should know by now that we are here to improve everyones map, not saying stupid comments.
Listoric
O_O What's this? Snow and Spaceweek? wtf ^^
Starparty
Perhaps we should nominate a jury to do this since it tends to get hot around here nowdays..
trcc
I agree, but the jury has to be partial, and can't submit his own map.
Listoric
Ah, cut the bullshit. We just step back to the old system, where i'm a dictator and just point blindfolded with a marker on the screen to pick the next motw... well... not that i did that before really. hehe. never...

really! ^^

... and even IF i had done it like that before, it would only prove our immense and superior quality. Wouldn't it? :P

But for real now. I like the discussion going on here, if there is any discussion more than "i vote for my map" "i dont know what to vote so i wont tell" or "your map suxx".

We should do it as we do. Someone is taking the part of the one who writes the article, which might be me this time, of noone has a prob with it. And i go through the comments and discuss with people to make my mind.

And if i'm not the one who writes the article this time, well then, just let me say that we had enough experimental maps by now and we should focus on beatiful maps with obviously balanced and competetive gameplay.

Also we should keep on improving everything here, as panschk is on the roll atm, thx a lot from me at this point.
Listoric
Ah, and btw, when your maps are FINAL, or VERY VERY close to final, then think about uploading an OBS version also. It just would be better if we had working obs version of the finished maps in my eyes.

You don'T have to create an obs version after every small change. Just ONE obs version after you think the map is totally finished. It's easier for you that way. (i do it like that atm, that's why only 2 maps got obs version because the others, well, i want to revisit them again in the near future...)
Listoric
And, to the maps:

24/12
Star Gates
Space Lotus
Permafrost
Asgards

My favs by now.
Especially Asgard, it looks very very interesting. Still have to take a closer look soon.

Comments?
Listoric
Ah and to the one who added Beyond Atmosphere, left a smile on my face ^^ but it is definitely not MotW quality ^^
RSCup.SpitFire
Ah, guys I've just left my team, so don't use 7x along with my name anymore :)
Just for future :)
panschk
What happened? 7x looked like a good team to me?

However, of course I will try to recrute you for FP now :D
flothefreak
I still demand a statement to the myterious vote that appeared out of nothing and thus decided MOTW not in a fair way.
ScoutWBF
Only Metal and Ice?Maybe I should go for something different like ash^^
panschk
Okay, this is a pretty clear decision to me. As it seems like the opinion on motw changed in the closing minutes or something, Star gates had actually as many votes as GoW, possibly even more. No need to talk of a scandal or anything though, because this has been like this more than once, when it is close the newsposter just decides, and that was me this time. We just need to keep going and can`t keep discussing all the time.

Anyway, SG looks like a very solid map, so gogo motw :)
flothefreak
if the newsposter judges by the wrong criteria or facts, I've got a problem with it.
And if there are two maps head-to-head, it would be the right decision to take the one that plays smoother and more comfortable anyway, which is SG in this case, no doubt about that.
ScoutWBF
GOGO 4 Win my first Ash map!! XD
panschk
... no doubt = we have no key at all?

At least GoW _has been played_. I`m not hating on Star Gates, but imo the safe bet would be the map that already has been played, not the one that has not been testen yet :[

Man really, had you made the newspost for SG, I would have accepted. Now it's too late anyway ~

Please don't ruin what we achieved and we are going to achieve with arguing about such little details :/
flothefreak
this is no detail to me
if it was, I wouldn't make a scene :[

My point is that I don't support a competition or take part in it, if I consider it not being a fair one. This was already the second time that put my valuation of MOTW to the test. And I'm not this long active here.

So I have to make up my mind in how far I'm willing to participate in MOTW again.
And as long as the outcome is so obscene when having a "draw" between two maps, I honestly don't know which decision I will make.
decaf
Hychapt = :/
flothefreak
I actually like it
it's not motw- but still good and would me make playing it. it has style, which is most important :D
Starparty
My suggestion is that:

IF you decide to have a shot at getting MotW, then you dont comment in this thread. The ones not having a map will decide, but im getting a bit tired with everyone subjectively trying to push their own map.

so technically the ones nominated for MotW will be releaved from ther right to vote that week. If someone is nominated by someone else and wants to be removed so he can vote instead, that can ofcourse be arranged.
flothefreak
well
it's basicly a good idea, but if three of the "better" mapmakers make a map for motw, the decision will be made by even fewer ppl- that doesn't really help.
MillenniumArmy
Ok who added (4)Animosity :P
decaf
SP, thast a horrible idea. Often i'm sure that would lead to 1-2 people being able to vote.
flothefreak
is it possible to create a new user group (=/=admin! so "normal users" don't have to be admin) where only the ones entered in it can give a vote? or maybe 2votes, the first counting 2x, the 2nd counting 1x.
then only a certain amount of experienced users are allowed to vote on MOTW. AND their vote will be visible in public right here.


example:
"MAP A - 4
MAP B - 2
MAP C - 1
MAP D - 6
etc

users who voted: panschk, listoric, flothefreak, travin, summersky, lgi, trcc, staparty

and by clicking on the name, you see how the user dirstributed his voted, mb you click on "travin" and you see "Travin: 1. MAP A 2. MAP D.

thus, the decision would be obvious, visible to everyone and comprehensible.

In the case for a draw, there has to be a deciding (but clear!) rule. possibilities: the more standard map, the map whose authors had fewer MOTW, the more played map (so no bugs occur), the map that's better suited for competetive play, etc.

A system like this would be good imo, you'd see right by a look who voted, and what he voted, and what the result is.
flothefreak
after some1 added again one of my maps, I think I will give another try to trust in MOTW's fairness.
I hope I could at least push to a clear and comprehensible selection process.
still, I'll be very cautious about motw, having re-participated in motw this fast doesn't mean I'm totally neutral about it now.

but the void isn't done yet actually. there is no deco and pos balancing finished :<
Listoric
Start your votes by now, so that we can decide earlier this time. I want to write the article this week, because i love discussion ^^

24/12
Star Gates
Space Lotus
Permafrost
Asgards

All others don't have MotW quality in my eyes, prove me wrong :P
Listoric
Ah and - if we want to have a new voting system, try to use the feedback forum for that. It's just to messy here, with a motw poll running inbetween. Thx
Starparty
Well the second sollution would be to have the voting in adminzone. to lock out the users. Its a fascist way, but as it is extremely unorganized atm i wouldnt mind.
Starparty
i vote -the void- or -starsrtuck- btw
panschk
Well I will oppose myself to starstruck. Aphrodite was already motw, a map that took like 20 minutes to make based on aphrodite should not be motw again.

And I donīt see what`s so great about the_void neither. Both 45 minutes and chaos_factor are so much better (45min still needs a fix for main bases)

I will still support Star gates as motw!
flothefreak
well, feel free to add chaos factor/outlaw anthem/45minutes/whatever

they're clearly better than the void, for this was actually moved away heavily from the original concept
flothefreak
and as The Void is not done decorationwise, I don't want it to be MOTW. there are some nice ideas that will change the look completely ;)
RSCup.Spitfire
I've added chaos factor, seems like a good motw-candidate for me.
RSCup.Spitfire
Still don't know anything about my clan :D
I'm in 7x and apart from it :D Sutiation there is ROFL :D:D
flothefreak
18 maps T_T
I'd like to remove a few that won't be able to make it to MOTW... but I don't wanna go for arbitrariness

at least I'll remove the void^^
Starparty
should i do the dirtywork? just say yes and its done.
flothefreak
it's not the dirty work that I fear
it's the claiming of the right without justification
Starparty
That is the dirty work :p
Listoric
Chaos factor also looks good to me, but the -too much- amout of doodads and the strange top-exp-geysir are a pain to the eye and to movement imo. Especially the mining rate should be slower on top, because of the distance between the blocks imo, should be easy to fix.
Listoric
btw, yeha SP, go do the dirty work ^^
flothefreak
did it :o

hopefully I didn't delete YOUR personal MOTW candidate ^^
LGI
You delete mine :o

Well i will add it again...
LGI
This week i will comment only my top 3.

(2)Star Gates - 2 player map, that i like very much. The game with panschk was great, i didn't see anything anoying, ofcourse i will keep my personal feels, about playing on some kinds of MU, this is just because i am not a gosu that can handle everything :) . Seems balance, but i don't know how a zerg player will handle with the FE. I also think that there is too much gas, as most of Spitfire maps. But it's enought open so both players can do a big macro, and i think noone of the players will feel problems with gas. This is just how i feel it in game. I play TvT on the map too with panschk, he own be easy... He just play very good TvT, even 2 games TvT... - 9/10, only because i don't know how will be with zerg on this map. Overall for a two player map - it's great :D

(3)Permafrost - I am thinking to make un update of my own, just to show my idea to trcc, to complete the map, for now the concept and idea is great, but still needs some tests. From all this games i see that terran have hard times on this map because of the very open center. If there is battles in middle TvP or TvZ, T will lose 80%. Also i realise that for terran will be very important to get the air expand fast, because of the gas problem. And that is why other races will have to focus on destroyng air expand, so the ramps to the ice, are the best solution, for balance air expands, espacially in situation like this, that terran will try every game for fast air expand. As the map look now i think that the best and intresting MU will be PvZ. Seems balance for both. Still i don't have much experience in PvZ on this map. So after i make the update and show it to trcc, i want to see then his update on the map and then i think it's going to be great if a 3 player map is MotW. Rate - 9/10

(4)Space Lotus - 4 player map that grabs me from the first look :D . I see Gaia location placement, Lost Temple concept, the great work by Starparty, and better balance in Space Lotus then in LT or Gaia. So Space Lotus > Gaia, LT :) . I also like the idea with the air expands. Like there is going to be much action there in late games. The only thing that i really want to be fixed is making more space behind the main gas expands. Because that way if there is tanks on the cliff they will not only destroy the expand, they will block the entry of the player, just like in LT 3 > 12 o'clock. So if this is fixed the map will really be > Gaia, LT. And my personal MOTW candidate :). 9/10 :D

So i point 3 maps 2, 3, 4 player maps, that i really like in jpg and in game. There is a good map for 2 players, a little experimental for 3 players, and very cool and good looking map for 4 players.

1. (2)Star Gate - Because it looks finished.
2. (4)Space Lotus - Because it's very close to the finish.
3. (3)Permafrost - Because it needs some more work, and testing, it's just very new concept with no gas at main for me at least...
Starparty
I like solar impact and winter paradise..

i would place solar impact first if i wasnt so damn ugly thougt :P

please work on the design. The concet is really ok but the map itself looks sloppy and i wouldnt want to present it on headline news the way it is now.
panschk
Don't want to flame, but what's so great about solar impact? Looks like a "standard" two player map (like trcc and spitfire made dozens), and with that concept, it`s all about style. And in that category star gates for example is much better ;)

I will still vote for stargate ;) Well maybe I get to test some more with LGI for more comments :]
flothefreak
I fear permafrost will be too experimental for competative play...
great map, but nothing for motw imo, sry
flothefreak
1) space lotus
2) Star Gates
3) chaos factor
ScoutWBF
I'm quite suprised that SPace lotus gets votes. Oo

Maybe I get some votes if I update my map again today.^^
flothefreak
it has potential, that's for sure.
i like it :) keep improving!
panschk
T_T

flo if we are really stuck with goddessofday - and arena -clones for the rest of our BW-lives, then we could really stop submitting any maps _now_. I hope we get to a level of balancing where experimental stuff can and will be MOTW. Only that we did the experiments and made it balanced.

That being said, permafrost is not on that level yet. Give it another month of testing and refining, and then we could have a real killer map.
panschk
oh dont get me wrong. they are both great maps, and its nothing wrong with them as motw. Just from time to time a map like bunker44 or permafrost should be able to get motw too. Of course we would test gameplay and balancing before.
flothefreak
well don't forget MOTW should be a figurehead- and maps like permafrost are good, and they will be fun to play, but as soon as it comes to competetive play, there'll be complaints about it.
the bw users are not ready for this yet.

when promoting this site more and more, we'll be able to present maps like this as well- but at the moment, it's not the common use that players come here and choose maps from the DB to play, they mostly take what they get from gg.net etc
too experimental will scare them off from the start on, cuz for most it's a VERY large step to play other maps as the standard lt/luna/...
from other(user) maps to such experimental maps it is not this large, and this is why we should initiate them with a basic push imo, not with the final open mind for new things.
Starparty
That is why we fill different roles. SOme come with really experimental ideas, and others tone them down abit so they dont get carried away.

I would actually dont mind chaos factor for MotW either, i think it will bring cool tactis
flothefreak
well chaos factor doesn't seem to be on the winner's trip, so who cares^^
decaf
1) Space lotus
2) Chaos factor
ScoutWBF
Hychapt should be more interesting in the new version.

By the way I think Space Lotus is a pretty boring map at Terran vs Terran if its a close position match.
flothefreak
hm, seems like space lotus to me, but only with a _very_ little headstart
ScoutWBF
Could it be that some maps just get sympathy bonus cause of the one who created it? 8[
Starparty
Well i dont think that you will egt sympathy by flaming my maps for no reason :(
ScoutWBF
I haven't flamed I just said it might be boring because if both go gol drop its more about bunkering than about action cause of one mistake and your whole army is owned and you lost.But if others like it I don't care and sry if you thought its meant as flame.
flothefreak
well, it's funny that this is like, in every mirror-mu. when you make a mistake, you lose your game :<
ScoutWBF
But on Space Lotus its EXTREME because of the space between the main bases is so small and I think there is no other possibility than going Goliath drop all the time except you take a disadvantage.
Listoric
By now, Space Lotus got the most votes i'd say. but i really see big T problems.

Imagine 2on2. TTvsPZ. Terrans both on top right.

They can secure and kill - every - expansion from the enemys with one dropping place! (except the centered min-only...)

I really see this as a BIG issue.

Still, it might only change the fighting place to the big cliff. But it's experimental in my eyes and needs a lot of testgames.

Star Gates looks as a better choice in my eyes by now. But that's maybe just because it's the "easier" to decide on, after it's "quite usual"
panschk
Star gates is really a very good "classic-style" map. We had so many 4-player maps in the past weeks, I really would like Star Gates as a nice 2 player map. And zvt is not that bad neither, remember the distance is long and Z can attack terran from behind too.

triggers need to be fixed though :X
Spitfire
Already ;]
panschk
After our BO9, I still vote for SG :]
Listoric
Ok, i write the article as soon as i get to it. Maybe tonight, now i have to go on a roleplay ("DSA - Das Schwarze Auge" - The Black Eye would be the 1to1 translation, something similar to Midgard ^^)
ScoutWBF
Nobody even mentioned my map 8[
Starparty
Just because it is one of your betetr maps doesnt mean it needs alot of tweaing.

for example i think you should start with balancing the naturals better. as it is now it takes 40 sunkens to protect it good..
Starparty
doesnt mean it doesn't need alot of tweaking
SpoR
permafrost, space lotus, and the moth are top 3 in no particular order
panschk[FP]
SG:
LGI, panschk, Listoric, secound choice of flothefreak, proven itself as cool map in the showmatch...Can I make the newspost?
LGI
Go ahead :D
flothefreak
ya, no doubt
ScoutWBF
Congratz to SpitFire.

I'm just interested in next week cause of me having 2 good maps at the same time.But I'll lose to sympathy bonuses anyway.^^
panschk[FP]
Having more than one map of yourself is not going to be an advantage. Its probably more a disadvantage!
flothefreak
ya
Spitfire
ScoutWBF, thx ya ^^
Good luck with the next week :)
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