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MOTW 50

deadline to enter maps: 2005, 12, 09 (Year, month, day)


Keep Going :D

NameAuthorDownloadvote(1., 2., 3. choice)
(4)still in love1.31nonameMelee Obs Picture0
(2)Star GatesRSCup.SpitFire[7x]Melee Obs Picture0
(2)Twisted TempledecafchickenMelee Obs Picture0
(3)Triple HexdecafchickenMelee Obs Picture0
(2)my decembernonameMelee Obs Picture0
(2)Frozen all overScoutWBFMelee Picture0
(2)Sleeping Sun FinalScoutWBFMelee Obs Picture0
The competition is closed!
Comments:

flothefreak
I think it's worth another try
panschk
yeah it is :]
LGI
Well i think i will keep submiting my Grapes of Wrath, until you get sick of it, and make it a MotW :) . This is my best map, and i will defend my position :).
RSCup.SpitFire[7x]
And I will keep my map modified until you like it :) I like it very much, so I submitted it ^^
flothefreak
actually I like this development.
instead of massing maps, the trend goes to keep a few and going on to improve them more and more

thumbs up!
this is the right attitude for a mapper
panschk
Yeah, there are "enough" maps out there, it is all about making them as perfect as possible and promote them.
LGI
Well, really do you think that Grapes of Warth can be more finish then that?
flothefreak
ya, you could do something about decoration imho. esp. the center and the areas around 3and9 o'clock
flothefreak
(imo)
LGI
What's wrong with the deco? I mean i even made test on map to see that it has enought space to build defending buildings in 3 and 9 o'clock. The other doodads are all walkable, and buildable, and i will let them, because it really looks good, and original.

P.S. The gardens in 3 and 9 o'clock attract most in game. People like them.
Starparty
outlaw anthem >>> chaos factor.

add outlaw and ill vote for it.
flothefreak
I think some out there would mind if I add it myself again.
So feel free to do it, I probably won't.
decaf
Whoops didnt mean to enter Twisted temple :p If an admin could remove that, thanks.
Starparty
i prefer that to tripple hex
decaf
Okay then :)
Listoric
twentyfour-twelve

the map with the dumbest name out there, but in my eyes, it's one of the best maps uploaded in the last weeks.

flothefreak
unfortunately with a nice T ownage :[
Listoric
? great comment, maybe you explain what you are thinking instead of just posting random bs :P ^^
Starparty
well i understand him. THere are 2 expos per player which is barely attackable :p
flothefreak
in short, taking bottom pos as example:
how do you stop terran from taking natural and 10 o'clock-expo straight after that?
it's impossible with this small path, then you got a 3-base-3-gas-terran on a small map like this. if you're not boxer vs newbie, you can write GG now...
flothefreak
And: My bullshit is _not_ random, it takes several hard selection procedures to make it on this page, so you only get the best bullshit possible.

decaf
I still think it looks too much like bifrost :/
Starparty
And: My bullshit is _not_ random, it takes several hard selection procedures to make it on this page, so you only get the best bullshit possible.


word!
Listoric
Gosh, calm down.

First of all there are two nice little smilies telling you that this comment is not meant to be _that_ serious. Only to let you see how a comment looks like if you're to short with your comments.

I thought we are discussing these maps and not guessing what someone else might have thought.

Don't you think so?

I see this Terran Advantage also, but still you may have an other opinion about something else i missed?

So, again, and i'm talking to everyone. Try to explain what you are thinking instead of posting _small unclear comments_.

flothefreak
hey lis that was just fun too^^

:)
noname
wow.. thanks lis. :)

about the t ownage problem.. you might be right flo.. :/ but i could remove the gas at 10 o'clock and place a gas at the min only at 6 instead, where it would be more open to attacks. that's the only way i can think off atm without changing too much of the terrain and path-ways.
LGI
Well, the deadline is over, so here is my review for this week.

Now i hate to repeat myself so i won't comment the maps, that i already do, in the last week.

1) (4)still in love1.1 - Look's very good, as i already said some weeks ago, but i see some other things to do on it, and i think that in the end of the next week it will be 100% finished. Or mayby it's finished now... I don't know, still very nice, and the gameplay is almost like in (4)The Coming Dark Age.

2) (3)Triple Hex - No chance, man... For me this is just a terran domination in the expands. He can shoot every expand from his expand... You just have to give some more room in the middle, and test tank range, so everything is fine. This will bring the balance in your map.

3) (2)twentyfour-twelve0.1 - Looks very simple, still i think that they are gonna be nice games on it, but noname, you still got work on this one too. At least move one of the gas station at min only :( . Already talk about this, with the other guys and you should do it!

4) (2)Frozen all over - Even with the update of the map, still they are many mistakes to fix, that should be tested too. The map is just not finish for me...

5) (2)Sleeping Sun 1.3 - This is a map that i play very often 1 month ago, only to learn it very good, and still it was very boring for me. I got near 30 games on the map. The last game on it was vs panschk. It was a 30 minute ZvT and still it was broing for me :( . The reason that i feel it like that is mayby because the map got only one big center, to the map edges, they are no other areas to fight... It's just the middle. I like the shape, and i like it on a picture, but i don't like the gameplay.

Rates:

(4)Grapes of Wrath 2.0 - 10/10 - As last week.

(4)still in love1.1 - 8/10

(2)Chaos_Factor - 7/10 - You won't get my vote, until you do the suggestion in the GMCS with the mains... Sorry :( . The part of the map is VERY GOOD! Espacialy the backdoor.

(2)Star Gates - This map got trough some updates, that make it more good, then before, i should try it even if i was scared for this ramps... The best 2 player map ths week - 9/10

(3)Triple Hex - 3/10 - Sorry man the map just don't have nothing, except mains, and expands that are gonna be own by a terran player...

(2)twentyfour-twelve0.1 - 7.5/10

(2)Frozen all over - 5/10

(2)Sleeping Sun 1.3 - 5.5/10

P.S. For me this week is not very strong, as the last week. And i tought that this might give me some advantage, but i don't think that anybody, open again the jpg of Grapes of Wrath, to make his mind for this week, only becouse the map gets old, and they are not any updates, but i think that i doesn't need. Still my true love :P
LGI
Forget to make top 3...

1. (4)Grapes of Wrath 2.0
2. (2)Star Gates
3. (4)still in love1.1
flothefreak
I would normally vote for Chaos Factor in first place and grapes of wrath in 2nd place, but as I'm shirty by LGI's childish ignorant behaviour and the fact that this is his official reason for excluding a map, I won't.


1 Chaos Factor
2 Star Gates
LGI
This is strange becouse, i talk about mains that will be owned by terran, and you are talking about my behaviour. WTF? And i don't rate the maps with the behaviour of the aouthor... Now this is childish behaviour!
Starparty
well to be honest i have to agree. Its the weakes MotW line up we've had so far imo. If chaosfactor is ok in game i could vote for that, but that would mostly be to make entropy happy (he likes many entrances)

panschk? comments? im kinda off beat here..
Starparty


1) (4)still in love1.1 - Look's very good, as i already said some weeks ago, but i see some other things to do on it, and i think that in the end of the next week it will be 100% finished. Or mayby it's finished now... I don't know, still very nice, and the gameplay is almost like in (4)The Coming Dark Age.



Would be the other way around since still in love has been here for about 4-5 months now...
flothefreak
it is childish behaviour to stick to an unimportant and irrelevant flaw of the map and saying because of that it's not good, good enough, whatever. When there is a tank PERMANENTLY so he can destroy your HQ, in other words you don't have enough units outside your base or anywhere, then you've lost the game, no matter what you do. And if you only survive cuz of your 1st carrier but it's too slow in killing this tank, you're on the loss position anyway.
LGI
Yes, but he start update the map this days, and from the comments i see that he have some things in mind, anyway i still like it that's why it is in my top 3 :) .
LGI
flothefreak, we alaredy comment this part of the game, as random player i have many situations like this, i got more then 50 acc, and more then 20 000 games, my experience is enought to know that my chances are 50-50 in this situation, panschk also comment this. Also here we have a backdoor, wich will help to comeout with the army, and go from back. This is good! The only problem is that, while you make the army to kill the tanks in front of you, you won't gather minerals, and you won't have main base! Just move the mineral placemnet like in the GMCS, GOD!
LGI
I can prove this, because our thinking in game is diffrent. For example. What will you do if you are zerg and a terran is infront of your expand with 1-2-3 tanks and MM, and you have 2-3 sunks that will die soon, mayby 1-12x12 zerglings and 12 mutes? Well most of the players try to save his expand, or main... Usually i go to their bases with the mutes sacrafice the expand and wait in a hidden place in main base with lings to attack him in back. Or they are many times, that i play for fast broodling and ensnair. I make queens nest before the spire. But this is other tacticas, and i go way much offtopic.
flothefreak
I don't agree. It's just not true that most z players try to save their expo when attacked. it's the other way round, most that I know would go straight to the exposed main/enemy expo.

and the fast broodling/ensnare-tactics just show that your opponent's don't play starcraft, they play standard.
When your enemy (same level) knows what to do, you won't win due to incredible amount of gas and atime to gain mana. that's it. but as long as your opponent doesn't get this, well, he'll die to 5pool, too.



however, if I move the mineral line to the edge you mean, protss will die to lurk-harass probably.
LGI
Cannons, are always somewhere close to minerals, because of mute, the same deal will be vs lurkers...
flothefreak
look up my comment in the map-thread of chaos-factor
flothefreak
I had to remove Chaos Factor.
It is a good map, and it makes fun to play, but I don't think it's recommended for competative play, due to the backdoor ramps. It's not good for the site when a map gets MOTW, where on the bottom ramp even ullis can walk up without problems, but on top, you have to click on a certain area (above top edge of ramp) to get this effect.

So I submit Outlaw Anthem instead and change my vote accordingly.
flothefreak
ah ok, deadline is over
well, chaos factor is now removed from the list.
flothefreak
I vote Star Gates then.
decaf
I used doodads to block off tank positioning on Tripple hex, i'll test it out tomorow.
Listoric
24/12 is great imo, but stil needs tweaking. Stargates is it this week in my eyes.
Listoric
Still, you can wall on stargates to get the second expansion as T very easy. Not sure how the impact is ingame. P has the biggest lack through that i'd say.
ScoutWBF
I wont vote for a map but against one and that map is Stargates.

It is the worst map I played for a long time. 12Expansion for a 2 player map are too many and the map is much too open for TvP.
If it gets updated with less expansions and tighter terrain then it can get MotW.
Listoric
Scout is partly right imo. 12 expansions are a lot.

We had a 37 minute game, and we both had no idea where to expand, attack, defend. Just to much possibilities ^^

I even say this map favours terran a lot. You can easily wall at the widened ramp, to get the min-exp for free. And with the tons of vults a P should have the hardest time to even move on this map. Only chance is to kick the T on the open battlefield, which is very well designed imo. Still, T can easily get the island next to the mainbase and drop on the other island and kick the min-exp from the enemy.

Hard to say, but in my eyes, this map is, as it is now, a total terran ownage. On the other hand. If the isles would be moved to the mapedges, or switch place with the expansion there, the map would lose it's style and be "quite basic" then.

Not sure. Some other have to say something about Star Gates. I really like it, but i'm just not sure if it might be too imbalanced for MotW?.

Comments?
trcc
I would like to play some games tomorrow :P on any maps for the motw.. I'm quite bad =P but still can do some dmg =D If some1 wanting to play, post here! (its right now 1h AM eastern time america) so +6 = 7h so you are probably all sleeping -_-, so if i wake up early like at 10 A.M, It would be around 4 PM for you guys. If anyone wanna tell me what time want to play, contact me da_infector@msn.com asap =)
RSCup.SpitFire[7x]
Look at this update.
LGI
"Comments?"

Yeah, comments? Comments about some other maps? huh...
flothefreak
well, with the changes it's still a good map, even if not as original as before.
As it is now, I don't fear any imbalances cuz there are none striking

[x]STAR GATES GOGO
panschk
I don't know...stargates looks so "boring" to me. Otherwise grapes of wraiths is maybe the only alternative..
panschk
oh and still in love, except for those useless mineral blocks at choke. I don't think everyone needs to copy it just because it is in Forte...
LGI
To be honest, i really want this week to have 2 MotW... Star Gate and Grapes of Wrath. I've just told you may toughts and things that i hope, but since i don't have a single vote on the map, except mine. But i won't submit other map except this... Even if i make better maps. Somehow i don't understand, what's so bad about this map... I have the feel that i have to bag for comments on my last maps. I only get comments if i bag, and most of them are with 1-2 lines... Flothefreak is the only one who comment them. Thank you for this.
flothefreak
well, no problem.
If I'm not pissed or something else, I'm a social person, thus I try to help when I can.
flothefreak
SO WHAT?
MeNdIp
Dam I love this site!
Great job guys now I know where to get my maps ;D
trcc
I'm talking for myself, but i think the map grape of wraith is good, but i don't like how you made it. All those doodads that are supposed to make it look good just make it worse, and those broken cliffs in middle looks ugly and unatural :/ The map is way more symetrical than a space map i would make :| I like the main setup, the expo placement etc... it's only not appealing to my eye and maybe it is what other people think O_+ but i won't speak for them. No offense LGI =(
LGI
I don't offense, i just want it some comments! To know what you don't like, how can i guess what is in your brain, without saing it?

...

P.S. I just get up, because of the party. Now i have some work, and i don't know when i will find some time to play, i even don't have time to see whats going on last day that i was missing, see you soon all.
flothefreak
so, motw this time?
Starparty
Still in love or grapes of wrath id believe...

i just go with panschk ~_~
ScoutWBF
Frozen all over gets the win because of Starparty stealing the win at his competition. XD
Starparty
frozen all over is not a bad map at all, its actually pretty nice and its the best scout has made imo. But i dont think its suited for competitive play.
panschk
I watched replay and GoW looks much better ingame than picture (to me), I like it. Which version is the new one btw? (I prefer the green wall one from the style, don't know about gameplay) The strange temple walls reaching inside the mains should be fixed though. Then I'll give my vote to GoW :] (oh and make an obs version please)
Starparty
i have decided.

I will be honest. I dont like GoW. Its too complicated. However i will vote for it anyway, its a bit of an experiment from my side to see if it gets good response at the coming tour. Im not going into detail, its just what i think. If there are problems there will be easier maps in the pack the players can choose instead if they want.
panschk
I will still wait with newspost, I want to be sure what is newest version etc.
RSCup.SpitFire[7x]
I'd vote for SG.
Listoric
Me 2. It has changed since my last visit but i still like it a lot. looks a bit more basic, but more balanced also.

GoW is good too. Still i wouldn't want it to be MotW, but it's not my decicion this week ;) just to busy. imo the best map should be motw, not the bets fitting into a pack. (same decision as making Jaculus motw because of T favour, while it isn't that good imo)
Starparty
well i need a final vote to clearify it. Otherwise id say GoW wins because if voting on your own map is allowed, LGI will vote for it too.
Starparty
Gow wins no matter how we do it.
RSCup.SpitFire[7x]
Again enter T_T
I don't want to vote for GoW cause I'me feared about macro games.. There is no really good place to put factories imo, especially on mainbases. Long PvT games favours Protoss a lot because gateways in many places is a protoss advantage.
LGI
Did you watch at least some repleys? Hm, yes they are not so many replays, but i will make some for you. Believe me this map can't be talked so much. You have to play it. The gameplay is not that standart, couse of many things. I play the map many times, mostly 2v2, but most of the games are fast. So i don't save them.
flothefreak
YAYA
the games on yours maps are always very good to play, and the gameplay is never standard at all, and you cannot judge anything by picture (mainbase size, lol), we know that all already.
it's the same about every one of your map.


I vote for Star Gates.
so if I count

me, lis, spit: SG
pan, SP, LGI: GoW

3:3

so "Gow wins no matter how we do it" is just wrong, buddy.
Listoric
I'd also go more for a map where i'm "sure" about balancing, especially if it is Map of the Week.
LGI
flothefreak, how often do you play user maps?

flothefreak, how often do you watch repleys on user maps?

flothefreak, how often you argue with me just about everything?

Damn it, i am sick a little of all this.

As i said a little earlier in my comment, that i was hoping for a 2 MotW this week. I like GoW as much as SG. Even if i still haven't play SG (don't have time for every map on this site, you have to understand me).

I also comment last week, about 2 players maps vs 4 player maps in a same MotW. I have a system in rating maps.

So for me this week best 4 players map is GoW, and best 2 players map is SG.

Hope someone write the article soon, because wednesday is on the way, and the deadline for the next week is friday...

Good luck.
flothefreak
I stand right here.
So don't argue ten miles apart from me in a totally other direction. which would be fun again I guess, but I'll spare that for tomorrow or anytime, gotta go now. Should I give you some pieces of argumentation-feed until then, so you can prepare your position? Go for time-invest in broodwar per week, maybe, or something else :)
I bet you can think of a lot of things that have somehow maybe a little tiny bit to do with my laughing at your conceit!



besides
there is no "2-player MOTW" and "4-player MOTW" competition, it's a single completly normal MOTW-thing.
Listoric
Funnier to read the comments here than reading stuff in the BW.de ot forum.

First of all, flo is right, imo.

LGI, we had a lot of conversations in the ICQ already and i told you that you remind me of myself somehow. You praise every map of yourself, which is good of course, as you know best what possibilities the map offers.

But, everyone knows best about their own maps, that's the way it is and will be! So we ALL know that. I know my maps best, and flo his. We all know the possibilities, tactical things, the work we had with the map, everything.

And, after we all know how hard it is to create a map, we know that you do the same! We also see if a map is good or not! And we also see flaws.

You're absolutely right if you say, ->SOME<- maps have to be playtested before someone can give a comment on balancing. others can be commented on first sight. There's almost no new and balanced (!) meleemap setup i don't have created myself already, or haven't seen.

Don't think that just because you made something "new", as you stated your expansion layout yourself, that others not already had the same idea. I deleted a dozen of maps because i saw it as imbalanced before completing them.

Then, as you said, you think that some of us don't play the maps. True, i don't, i have almost no time playing BW atm. Also i'm the wrong to test those maps actually. I'm just to bad ^^ But i know the game very well.

Still...

I'm not sure if GoW has enough building space.
I'm not sure if GoW has enough flanking room.
I'm not sure how strong a T can push on GoW.
I'm not sure if P can move a big army against a T.
I'm just to unsure about a lot of things.

The chance that everything is just fine, is almost 0%. So, the map _might_ be balanced, but i doubt this.

SG on the other hand, well, i'm just sure about all things mentioned above. It's obvious. And whith that in mind. I wouldn't want to have GoW as MotW, even if you worked on it for 200 hours. As it is now, i doubt it is -> better -> than SG in the things a MotW should have.

But it's a good map without a doubt.
Listoric
"than SG in the things a MotW should have" - In my opinion.

Others may think different on that.
Starparty
spitfire made good maps, but sg seems just dull to me. However its 4:3 so post the damn post already.

The following weeks i will continuously post a "safe card" when things end up like this, because personally this week had the most unsure maps so far. The maps werent totally bad or anything, but compared to previous weeks, this week has had the lowest quality imo.

My safecard will be some map everyone likes.. like kingdom of aragua or something (if that hadnt been motw already that is)
LGI
Yeah, sure Listoric. You say T might be very strong on this map. Spitfire says P might very strong on this map. The plyers that i play with say, that Z have many expands to takeover on this map, and this give them advantage, mayby thats why eSu.TechnicS wants this map for the next showmatch. And i say FUCK IT! Let's all be happy, and go on.
Listoric
n/c
RSCup.SpitFire[7x]
I'm not saying that P is strong.
I said that it's clearly a macro-oriented map with no space to build. Especially factories. When we played 2v2 and 2v2 there, I was Z. Even than I thought that maibase size is small.
I'm sure that it's much bigger than on NeoForte, but there is large building room on gas nat. That's like a compensation for small mains. There I can't see such place except minonlies. But factories are extremely vulnerable there, that's a fact. That's why I didn't vote for GoW.
RSCup.SpitFire[7x]
Anyway, your map was suggested stronger than my by the majority. So, greetings for the winner :)
flothefreak
wait, where did the 4th vote for GoW come from?

this is the second time where I really think about never participating in MOTW anymore.

this just sucks heavily, if I was spitfire, I`d be really pissed to have lost MOTW because of some dubious and obscure scenes happening in MOTW decision.
LGI
Honestly i also didn't know from where did this 4th vote come from, and i even didn't know for wich map is the 4th vote, but i don't ask, because i didn't care anymore. I was thinking of deleting both versions of the map, so it don't make everybody so angry, but still it would be a big pain for me.
RSCup.Spitfire[7x]
Flo, I'm not angry. Just looking forward to new MOTW :)
Anyway, it's better to search for faults in myself. If I had done my map better, the atmosphere would have been more friendly.
So calm down. I really don't want to make this situation worse than now..
No offense from me.
panschk
Starparty and myself talked about it and then decide on motw...I don`t really care about comments done _after_ the decision is made :{

Now just accept that we have a winner, mainbase size is no problem on GoW, the map plays great, looks great ingame (no so much on jpg, ok) and is decently balanced while playing "differently".

For heaven`s sake, SG can be motw 51 and Spitfire gets the motw he deserves, as GoW would have been motw sooner or later anyway, it doesn`t matter if it is this week or next week :O

Oh and sorry if I hurt anyone`s feelings. And no please stop beeing offended :]
panschk[FP]
-_-
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