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MOTM 11.07

deadline to enter maps: 2007, 11, 05 (Year, month, day)
Submit any gosu map you feel is worthy of the MOTM title! Than we gon' do the damn thing :)

- NastyMarine

NameAuthorDownloadvote(1., 2., 3. choice)
(2)Morris PlainsNastyMarineMelee Obs Picture40
(2)Frosty FortressflothefreakMelee Obs Picture26
(2)BonecrusherflothefreakMelee Obs Picture12
(2)DoingTheDying 2.0flothefreakMelee Obs Picture1
(4)AirbagSauruSMelee Obs Picture3
(2)Lost SoulptarMelee Obs Picture19
(4)Space SummerProTosS4EveRMelee Obs Picture8
(4)Waterfalling 0.94LMLMelee Picture0
(2)SnakeVine1.5MuShuMelee Obs Picture5
(2)Dame as GodFaNta.DwmTMelee Obs Picture0
(7)Seven SinsTestbugMelee Obs Picture38
(4)The Accomplice 3Allstar4Melee Picture0
(4)SigmaJK)ValkyrionMelee Picture0
(4)MidgardNightmarjooMelee Picture0
(4)GladiatorsPanschk[FP]Melee Obs Picture0
(2)Druid ShrineExcaliburMelee Picture0
(2)Twisted Passion 1.2NightmarjooMelee Obs Picture10
(4)Grnaki PrimeLancetMelee Picture1
(2)Palace of Mists v1.2NoPantsRepublicMelee Obs Picture3
The competition is closed!
Comments:

NastyMarine
go go nasty!
ProTosS4EveR
gogo!
ProTosS4EveR
I am in holidays now and i have a looot of testing time! xPP

gogo testing!
ptar
Added an nice old map of mine :)
Testbug
should i make a Testbug map this month? :p
(@Crackling: a testbug+crackling map, but don't tell)
ProTosS4EveR
upload iron flush! =O
Testbug
yeah, i'm totally changin it with nightmarjoo's ideas.
ProTosS4EveR
Jungle Wonder MOTM 11 for sure.
ProTosS4EveR
WHO THE FUCK UPLOADED LUNA, T_T
Nightmarjoo
rofl I dunno, but I'm voting for it.
Nightmarjoo
rofl this list is so bad it's amazing.
Lancet
Does that mean that maps will be deleted again before the voting starts?
flothefreak
[x] delete luna, jungle wonder and those two 8player-maps. (oldpromap/no pic or any kind of comment&author/they are average and suck...)
flothefreak
i'd say deleting is okay as soon as the list grows too big
ptar
THe only good maps in this list are FrostyFortress, Morris Plains Space Summer and Lost Soul ^^.
ProTosS4EveR
Let's uplaod some classic maps, they may win motm. =/
Nightmarjoo
No, I'm not gonna bother with deleting maps, Lancet and templar will cry again. If someone removes luna I'm readding it, just to piss whoever cares off.

flo, read the motm10 comp thread.
Lancet
No, I will just not participate, but who cares? After all nobody gives a damn anyway.
modified by Lancet
Testbug
ptar you forgo BoneCrushe
Crackling
i added luna :>
ScoutWBF
The maplist is not the worst ever, as there is no map made by myself in it. :3
lnept
lol @ the whiners remove stuff they whine dont remove stuff they whine. came to the conclusion they are just trying to whine at all costs. Will have my Lab Report on tuesday.
PsychoTemplar
Was that English Inept was writing? It's seriously getting hard to tell :)
PsychoTemplar
"No, I'm not gonna bother with deleting maps, Lancet and templar will cry again."

I am not a cry baby!

...I'm not =(



But seriously, eat shit. You're the last person who should be saying that about me.
modified by PsychoTemplar
ptar
nice picture :)
PsychoTemplar
A work of FakeSteve ;)
ProTosS4EveR
TERRAN 4 EVER
modified by lnept
Nightmarjoo
Want some



with your whine?
flothefreak
no, cheese is for nubies!
ProTosS4EveR
Protoss > inept.
ProTosS4EveR
Wine is great
LML
lol@Bonecrusher, fix it b4 you add it to motm:D
at the 4 expo are 6mineral fields while on the opposite (10 expo) are 7mineral fields ;PP
flothefreak
positional variety
Nightmarjoo
Uploaded my own map (zomg)! It played pretty well in the test game I had. I'd say it's still a work-in-progress, needs better decoration, and possibly some other things tweaked/changed, etc.
Nightmarjoo
rofl what noob added midgard.

PLEASE CAN I REMOVE SOME MAPS FROM HERE? :(
Testbug
please can I remove a lot of mas from here??
ProTosS4EveR
remove seven sins :D
Excalibur
This map list lacks a crappy Excalibur map to make it teh UBER SUX XD
Excalibur
Who ever added druid shrine XD XD XD XD
But i may finish a map for this.
flothefreak
hihi i will remove a lot of the maps and everyone will blame nightmarjoo gnihihiihi
Crackling
BUWAAHAHAHAH >_<
ProTosS4EveR
testbgu, i forbid you to use fake votes to make the map win! :D
Testbug
it was not me! read the comments again
Nightmarjoo
lol
ProTosS4EveR
BCPGALMENBMOT MOTM 11
flothefreak
best map EVER
Lancet
I guess that only those that make the best maps can also make the worse maps on purpose!

Now, seriously guys, you want to remove maps? Work out criteria that do not give preminence to someone's opinion as to what a good map is or not.

For example, one possibility is that for this MOTM ONLY the maps that have been made since the LAST MOTM can participate. So any map with a map ID greater than 2497 (Paranoid Android) can participate. This will also automatically limit the total amount of maps that can participate. Another possibility is that if a map HAS ALREADY participated in a past MOTM it cannot participate in the current one.

If you don't like this then work out something else but please don't cheat people out of the thrill of participating even if their maps are not good and they don't win. Submitting a map for these competitions is an honor that mapers make to us and we should treat it as such (IMO).
ptar
I don't like your suggestions Lancet. Some maps are pretty bad. Look at BCPGALMENBMOT, you won't remove it? It was a joke when flo uploaded it. And now some idiots posted it here and you won't remove it, cuz it could get MOTM? Think about this pls.
Lancet
BCPGALMENBMOT as a map was made as a joke and it was uploaeded as a joke here too.

Now, if you take any statement to the limit you will find a contradiction. So to push my position to the limit you can "comb" the database for lousy maps and upload dozens of them here and then say "see Lancet we have to remove maps".

Well, of course in that situation we WOULD have to remove maps. I am presuposing good faith on behalf of the person uploading the maps:

But my point is this:

Think about a mapper that spends countless hours working on a map and then he uploads it to the MOTM competion. He may not win but at least he gets the satisfaction of competing! Isn't that what this is all about?

Now this mapper logs on to here one day to find his map that took so much effort was deleted by an admin that thought it was lousy. Wouldn't you feel betrayed? Wouldn't you just say to hell with this and never come back? That is my point.

Also even admins that are recognized as very good mappers disagree on what is a good map and what isn't. Can one remove a map even if the other disagrees?

Now ptar, I know I don't have all the answers, I know there are exceptions. I see merrit in your position but please recognize there is merrit in mine too. Let's just talk and agree on criteria to remove maps from the MOTM competion before voting starts. I can open a thread at the forum and we can discuss this in a calm and reasonable way, what say ye?

BUT FINALLYY, really, since when do I have control on whether a map gets removed or not? If nobody agrees with me then please by all means any of you go ahead an remove all the maps you want for whatever reason you want. I have already promised I will not post here complaining about it, I will simply not participate in MOTM (which, if my understanding of what many people think of my mapping skills is right, will not be considered a great loss anyway).
modified by Lancet
Allstar4
I kind of agree with Lancet. "Another possibility is that if a map HAS ALREADY participated in a past MOTM it cannot participate in the current one."

It is map of the month. Not: Lets give MOTM this month to the second place map last month."

Maybe a probation period on maps, once submitted can't be submitted again for the next 3 MOTM.
modified by Allstar4
ProTosS4EveR
Only Carkling can do joke like this here. ;P
Testbug
okayyyy let's start voting for our own mapsss!!
testbug voted seven sins as 1 choice
flothefreak voted frosty fortress as 1 choice
ProTosS4EveR voted space summer as 1 choice
nasty vote morris plains as 1 choice
modified by Testbug
Nightmarjoo
Lancet, mappers who have their shit maps here aren't competing, they're just taking up space. They have been given advice and suggestions and explanations in their map's thread as to what's good and bad, and whether or not it's any good. If they're too lazy to work on their map, they shouldn't upload it here. This is for Map of the Month, ie, good maps made recently. Not, for HEY-LOOK-I-MADE-A-MAP-I'M-GONNA-SUBMIT-IT-FOR-MOTM-EVEN-THOUGH-I-KNOW-IT-CAN'T-WIN-LOLOLOLOLOL.
If mappers make a shit map and aren't improving their map, they're not getting better as mappers.

As for joke submitions, for all we know half the maps here were joke submitions. Nothing shows who uploaded each map, nor why was any map here added.

Your thing about "mappers spent hours into their maps" is bullshit. Every mapper spends hours on his shitty maps. Then you find out what's wrong, and spend hours editing and testing (idealy). Then you make a new map, making sure to avoid the errors of the first map. That's how you get better. MOTM is a competition of the best maps, it's not for noob mappers. Noob mappers slowly get better at mapping until they're ready to make MOTM maps.
Do you think Nastymarine became the mapper he is now by making a shit map and submitting it to motw? No, he got flamed for being a noob for a while and slowly got better. Then he started submitting his maps once he was a more experienced mapper, and eventually made maps considered good enough to become motws.


"Also even admins that are recognized as very good mappers disagree on what is a good map and what isn't. Can one remove a map even if the other disagrees?"
Your arugment assumes that all admins are good mappers, this I assure you is not true.

People treat motm like a joke, not a serious competition of maps. And well, it is a joke now lol.
Nightmarjoo
Doing the Dying needs bigger mains, and the side paths might be a bit tight, especially for having the gas. The water could be reduced, perhaps?

Palace of Mists is a bit too linear for my taste.

Morris Plains needs testing. And an ovy spot.
I'd look out for the center being too tight for flanking middlegame, pvt. I'm worried about t being able to camp there while taking his side before p has arbiter or carrier. The main is kind of unharassable, though the nat is very harassable. The sl of the main could be moved to better use the space (which consequently would lengthen the long-enough-already main2main distances, bad thing imo). The pathing from the main space to the main ramp could be awkward.

Grnaki Prime might be fine. Needs testing though. I'm not going in depth on this map, cuz I already did, in its thread.

Twisted Passion 1.1 needs some more testing, but imo is pretty solid.

The Accomplice3 has a poor mineral only placement imo, and pvt horiz pos could be awkward. And gas issue. And some other things =/

The other maps don't warrant consideration imo.
Testbug
and seven sins? :(

lol, okay, serious: you forgot frosty fortress T_T
and is space summer really a picture map? i have played it and looks interesting
Lancet
LOL! One of the maps you didn't mention and therefore I suppose you consider unworthy of consideration is "Morris Plains" by that person that you presented to me as an example of good mapping: Nasty.

In any case, I have read the threads and I see many mappers making changes in response to comments. But all the names are up there and many of them are admins so contact them and ask them if their map submission was a joke.

But reread my post, we can formally limit the maps submitted here using the criteria I outlined above or other criteria. We can even for example demand a certain number of maps made to prevent "noobs" from participating here (but I would disagree). Also, for example, there are some "old" maps that could be deleted. We can do many things to achieve just what you want within a framework of respect for the mappers, really. Want to talk about it in the "Forum"?

But when the sole criteria is: what Nightmarjoo thinks is good, no matter how good a mapper you are, then I say we have a problem.

In any case, I think the community of mappers will vote forthe best maps as they have done in the past.
Testbug
what?
"Morris Plains needs testing. And an ovy spot.
I'd look out for the center being too tight for flanking middlegame, pvt. I'm worried about t being able to camp there while taking his side before p has arbiter or carrier. The main is kind of unharassable, though the nat is very harassable. The sl of the main could be moved to better use the space (which consequently would lengthen the long-enough-already main2main distances, bad thing imo). The pathing from the main space to the main ramp could be awkward."
Allstar4
There is already a map named Airbag. Map ID 1715. Map loses creative points! Airbag looks like it has a smilar basic layout like Neo Forte.
modified by Allstar4
ptar
Hey Joel, what about Lost Soul :)
Lancet
Nightmarjoo, sorry for that, you did mention Morris Plains, my bad. I have to learn not to post at 1 AM.

: ^ (
Allstar4
Haha wow, SauruS changed a vote because his vote put another map in front of his.
NastyMarine
morris plains' main set up is not bad, and you'd learn that if you'd fucking play it. For some one that lives by judging flanking in maps, I'm surprised that you think that a Terran can hold one side of a map - if at all easily.

Allstar4, is that true??? has anyone else noticed that? if thats the case then his votes are removed.
Nightmarjoo
"But when the sole criteria is: what Nightmarjoo thinks is good, no matter how good a mapper you are, then I say we have a problem"

I wish it was that way, but it's not. If you think it is, then wake up to reality please. If it was whatever Nightmarjoo wanted, Silver Flush would not be motm.

Nasty, who cares what Saurus did, it's his vote to cast.
Nasty, I see 0 reps on Morris Plains thread, so I can only assume that no games vs humans occured. I haven't played the map, and those were things I'd seen on the pic. You can say, "I played the map and these things were not issues, here's a rep" and I'll believe you -.-

Oh christ, this motm is gonna suck. Last month's 2nd place map is sucking up votes (it can't win again), and Testbug's for-fun-7-player-map is also getting votes. I'm of the opinion that regardless of the vote, a 7 player map, regardless of how much better it is than blizzard's awful 7 player maps, should not be motm. It doesn't really feature anything great, and is clearly heavily imbalanced =/
NastyMarine
No its not right to manipulate the system for himself. I dont care what you say. its not right.
NastyMarine

modified by NastyMarine
lnept
seven sins is clearly the best map on this list no contest.
Lancet
Galdiators, Palace of Mists, Sigma, Dame as God, Midgard and Snakevine have map IDs of 1, 1413, 999, 555, 1028 and 777. I think these maps are too old for MOTM when we are already in the Map ID 2000 plus range.

Vote switching to favor your map is reprehensible but you can't penalize people for switching their votes, it's their vote and their right to do so. However, I don't think votes for your own map should be counted in the final tally.

Nasty upload at least one replay for Morris Plains.

Can a map that got second place in a past MOTM win a current map MOTM? We have not sistematically posted 2nd (or third) places in the past and the final MOTM list only features first place winners. I think past 2nd or 3rd place maps should be allowed to win if they gather enough votes.
modified by Lancet
Nightmarjoo
I don't care too much about 2nd place motm maps winning, but if I have to pick a position I'd be against them being able to win, but I don't feel strongly for it, it wouldn't bother me =/

Nasty if you discounted the votes of people who changed their vote, you'd be eliminating almost every single active bwm mapper's vote, possibly even your own.
NastyMarine
To be honest, I've only changed my vote if i voted for any map that wasnt in the top 3 and had to change it b/c of a deadlock between the top 2 or 3. thats the truth. at this point, we are far from that. ok?
Allstar4
He had Palace of Mists as his #2 which put that map at 6 points, and his map only has 5. There is nothing wrong with changing maps to put in some tallies for the top 3 maps instead of being stubborn and pushing your own map that didn't make it. I suppose he can't be punished, but I got a few names in my head that might describe that kind of person.

I just looked closely at 7 sins pretty much because it has the most tallies so i wanted to know why.

This map has major flaws. The base at 7 has easy access to 2 expos, from his natural he can defend the base in the bottom left and he has access to that expo through his main. Then he has a "The Artist" like minonly expo right across the bridge. The minonly for red is just as close to the whitish color at 7, except he doesnt hae 2 other expos really close.

Orange and Yellow hae to fight for their minonly when white has free access to his 2 gas expos. Also Yellow's expo isn't een in danger of being rushed so he could just defend his ramp until hes ready to moe out, when most of the other teams hae wide open spaces to defend.
Blue also has 2 entrances to his main.

Bottom Line: Nice decoration but not fair map for all players.
modified by Allstar4
Nightmarjoo
hypocrite
Lancet
I want to propose again that we do not count self votes, that would change a lot the present situation. But cool down, a lot of people have not voted.
flothefreak
if i like my maps, i vote for them. end of story.
Testbug
balance is nothing with good players on it :)
see Fantasy :$
lol (7)Seven Sins shows a completely diferent game at each start location with each of the 6 posible oponent start locations.
map is not to be totally used, and you have some secret expos on it.
you must be constantly scouting, and every1 has the same expo posibilities :)
Allstar4
It does giue e'ery one a different game, but some of the games haue handicapes.
Lancet
"balance is nothing with good players on it :)"

On the contrary, it is the good players who will exploit the imbalances to the fullest.
ptar
come on, vote for lost soul !!!!
NastyMarine
LOL honestly, who the fuck is herb
Nightmarjoo
herb is a mapdori mapper
Maps he's uploaded here
modified by Nightmarjoo
ProTosS4EveR
It's a fake guy :P
ptar
herb is ok.
Nightmarjoo
herb didn't vote for Nasty's map, so he's obviously fake ;)
Allstar4
I really don't care who wins MOTM. Morris Plains is just better than Frosty Fortress, no matter how many fake votes / self voters there are.

Whichever one doesn't win this time will win next time so either way they'll both get it, unless for some reason someone decides that Seven Sins is apparently such an awesomely decorated map that the gameplay has no influence over its MOTM candidacy.
modified by Allstar4
lnept
sigh at these random noobs coming in thinking they are gods. even I dont speak with that much arrogance as in the post demonstrated above. funny thing is Morris Plains isn't even a good map....rofl.
Lancet
Well,we all have opinions don't we? Apart from my own map I favor Twisted Passions followed by Morris Plains and Space Summer and yes, I don't like Frosty Fortress although I do admit it is not a "bad" map and it has replays, which Morris Plains so far doesn't have. Also Frosty made second place in last MOTM (beaten by 3-Paranoid Android and Sound Barrier) so it is no stranger to receiving votes.

The way it looks now it is 1) Frosty, 2) Morris and 3) Seven. But of course we still have to play the "switch my vote" game that many like to play towards the end of the month plus there are still several people that have not yet voted.
modified by Lancet
Allstar4
At least I am here for the maps and not to attack other members. You must have self esteem issues to talk trash on a SC:BW map making website without being antagonized.
NastyMarine
lnept always has something to say about my maps :o :D
Nightmarjoo
I wish he had something to say about mine :(
lnept
ok allstar. at least I dont have to feel like im an allstar baseball player or something on a starcraft website. give me a break kid.

(its clear who has the real self esteem issue, the person that calls himself lnept or allstar, rofl)
modified by lnept
Allstar4
Allstar-Ninja was my starcraft name when I made this account. Just concentrate on the maps, that is what we are here for.
modified by Allstar4
lnept
if it was really about the maps you would realize that morris plains is awful
Allstar4
Just stop worrying about my opinion and worry about your own. Are you not understanding this?
lnept
I really don't care who wins MOTM. Morris Plains is just better than Frosty Fortress, no matter how many fake votes / self voters there are.

if you think that is an opinion, you obviously do not know the definition. you say it as it is fact, so I want to see why you think it is better automatically and that frosty fortress just has to be getting fake votes right?
Testbug
i know who are herb and for2motion, but i though Allstar4 was the fake voter :S

and as far as i kmnow, herb and for2motion can't write english very well.

aslo inept is the best think we have here, you can some times see nightmarjoo and me asking for inept's opinion :(
Nightmarjoo
lnept why won't you comment my map :(
NastyMarine
just cuz lnept can defeat mappers, doesnt mean he is all knowing. I've met many great players that have said my maps are good and bad. It is ALL a matter of OPINION. So don't turn to ONE player OR mapper ask for an opinion. AND THAT GOES FOR LNEPT TOO.
lnept
yeah I am definitely not all knowing that is just retarded. that is why I was "wtf" when he posted that "morris plains is just better then frosty fortress ez" and didnt even bother backing it up.

sure its a matter of opinion, but obviously some are not as great as others.

I try to put maps in an objective view, looking what the mapper tried to accomplish and see if it actually worked. A lot of players, but not mappers will simply say your map is good or bad based on if it good or bad for them. thats something you have to remember.
Testbug
heyyy if i change my 2nd vote it'll be a 3 tirple tie :D 23, 23 and 23 :D so we all won motm11.1 motm11.2 and motm11.3 :D:D:D
NastyMarine
(2)Frosty Fortress is winner.
Crackling
nah.
Testbug
lol
modified by Testbug
Crackling
lol

#2
modified by Crackling
Lancet
Nightmarjoo whatever happened to this comment:

"I'm of the opinion that regardless of the vote, a 7 player map, regardless of how much better it is than blizzard's awful 7 player maps, should not be motm. It doesn't really feature anything great, and is clearly heavily imbalanced"

you changed your mind?
Testbug
Contorl and Cucadas arrived!!! here they are! the guys who vote always for the same maps are here! the team is completed! Cucdas, Control, For2Motion and herb: Fantastic four!

we'll need Professor~Oak, Pacman, Electric-Spider and Chaucer!!!

i'll refresh your mind:
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
MOTM4:they wanted Endorphine to win...
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Control voted (4)Endorphine as 1. choice
Control voted (2)Iuppiter 1.1 as 2. choice
Control voted (2)Regardant Hawkeye as 3. choice

Cucdas voted (4)Endorphine as 1. choice
Cucdas voted (2)Battle on Char as 2. choice
Cucdas voted (4)Electric Desert as 3. choice

For2Motion voted (4)Endorphine as 1. choice
For2Motion voted (4)Electric Desert as 2. choice
For2Motion voted (2)Iuppiter 1.1 as 3. choice

potential voted (4)Endorphine as 1. choice
potential voted (2)Regardant Hawkeye as 3. choice

TSL voted (4)Endorphine as 1. choice
TSL voted (2)Regardant Hawkeye as 2. choice

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
MOTM6:they wanted Crystal Valley to win... but they changed their vote for iron flush last day
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Crackling sayd:
"TSL voted (2)Crystal Valley as 1. choice
TSL voted (4)Bridges of Scion as 2. choice
TSL voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice

potential voted (2)Crystal Valley as 1. choice
potential voted (4)Bridges of Scion as 2. choice
potential voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice

Control voted (2)Crystal Valley as 1. choice
Control voted (4)Bridges of Scion as 2. choice
Control voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice

check IP or something?"

Testug syad: "For2Motion voted (2)Crystal Valley as 1. choice, they are trying to get more votes than Iron Flush"

they all voted for the repeated map iron flush:
""Control voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice" = 1 point
"For2Motion voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice" = 1 point
"herb voted (2)Iron Flush as 2. choice" = 3 point
"potential voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice" = 1 points
"TSL voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice" = 1 point

that's why the 2nd iron flush has 7 points xD
LOL"

Testbug sayd:
"Cucdas voted (2)Crystal Valley as 1. choice
Cucdas voted (2)Breach Point as 2. choice
Cucdas voted (2)Sound Barrier as 3. choice

they finally got more votes than iron flush"

final results: they all changed theyr vote from Crystal valley to iron flush, that's why iron flush got more than 80 votes. but it had already won with about 50
Control voted (2)Iron Flush 2.1 as 1. choice
Control voted (2)Eres as 2. choice
Control voted (2)Crystal Valley as 3. choice

Cucdas voted (2)Iron Flush 2.1 as 1. choice
Cucdas voted (2)Eres as 2. choice
Cucdas voted (2)Coastal Battery 1.3 as 3. choice

For2Motion voted (2)Iron Flush 2.1 as 1. choice
For2Motion voted (2)Eres as 2. choice
For2Motion voted (2)Breach Point as 3. choice

potential voted (2)Crystal Valley as 1. choice
potential voted (4)Bridges of Scion as 2. choice
potential voted (2)Iron Flush 2.1 as 3. choice

TSL voted (2)Iron Flush 2.1 as 1. choice
TSL voted (2)Eres as 2. choice


if other map gets more than 36 votes, then potential and TSL will come :)

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
i don't care cuz i like Frosty fortress, i didn't chose Frosty Fortress as 1. choice cuz i wanted my own map to win ;)
Testbug
Nightmarjoo we'll need Professor~Oak, Pacman, Electric-Spider and Chaucer!!!
Testbug
MOTM11: they want frosty fortress to win
:::::::::::::::::::::::::

Control voted (2)Frosty Fortress as 1. choice
Control voted (2)Twisted Passion 1.2 as 2. choice
Control voted (2)Morris Plains as 3. choice

Cucdas voted (2)Frosty Fortress as 1. choice
Cucdas voted (2)Morris Plains as 2. choice
Cucdas voted (2)Lost Soul as 3. choice

For2Motion voted (2)Frosty Fortress as 1. choice
For2Motion voted (2)Lost Soul as 2. choice
For2Motion voted (2)Twisted Passion 1.2 as 3. choice

herb voted (2)Frosty Fortress as 1. choice
herb voted (2)Bonecrusher as 2. choice
herb voted (2)Twisted Passion 1.2 as 3. choice
Control
Testbug voted (7)Seven Sins as 1. choice
Control
MOTM 10.07
Testbug voted (3)Paranoid Android as 1. choice
Control
MOTM 9.07
Testbug voted (3)Obsession Shrine as 1. choice
Control
(2)Frosty Fortress not a my map! I not voted for my maps. Only you voted for you stupid FFA maps :) Sorry but this is true. Peace for all :)

관련 링크 스타크래프트 한국 공식 홈페이지
Testbug
i sayd " don't care because i like Frosty fortress, i didn't chose Frosty Fortress as 1. choice because i wanted my own map to win ;)"

so please, edit your post, i find it offensive.
Testbug
i also voted for (3)Moon Tear and (2)Iron flush :) because i want my maps to win motms ^^
ptar
detective Testbug :)
Lancet
I want my maps to win but I don't vote for them. In any case, what gives? Since we don't have any freaking rules regarding who can vote or not and why, we are always going to be vulnerable to the possibility of someone having multiple aliases and piling up votes.

At least they have good taste, Frosty is a better map than Seven. A 1x1 on Seven has the potential to be seriously imbalanced, I mean, if we are to be concerned about this. Are we still supposed to care about balance in maps around here?
Nightmarjoo
I think it's really silly for Frost Fortress to win when it has a clear problem tvp.
Seven Sins is weird and clearly imbalanced, but it's actually not bad, having watched all its reps. It's quite unique, and only positionally imbalanced I think, whereas Frosty Fortress is racially imbalanced ._. tough choice, but I'll go with the map which is more unique, and hasn't already been on the front page, personally.

Testbug, the special forces squadron will appear tomorow!
Lancet
I don't like Frosty but based on that single replay I don't think you can conclude it's imbalanced in favor of Terran. I think toss should have gone for speed zeals and goons from the begining and contrary to what some say the center does have room to flank.
Testbug
"Testbug, the special forces squadron will appear tomorow!"

GREATTTT!!!!!!!!!
but remember potential and TSL can make the difference :(
lnept
wait were judging seven sins on 1v1?

wtf.
Lancet
"wait were judging seven sins on 1v1?"

Yes
Crackling
inspektor testb... eeeh gadget!
Testbug
lol
lnept
no wonder MOTW sucks then, who in their right mind would judge seven sins on 1v1
Lancet
Is the most common game played.

yea buts its map of the week, not 1v1 map of the week
modified by lnept
Nightmarjoo
I'm not looking at seven sins from balance point of view, it clearly is badly positionally imbalanced. I'm looking at interest level, uniqueness, innovation, etc. I usually don't do this, but I don't care for Morris Plains personally, Frosty Fortress already got 2nd place motm, and I'm sure it has a problem tvp. The one rep which shows that problem is not prove, but merely me testing my theory crafting, and to me proved it.
ptar
Just switch all your votes to Lost Soul!!!
Testbug
LOL
Lancet
I disagree about Frosty being imbalanced. Toss has an advantage over terran at the begining of the game and in the replay this player failed to exploit it by attacking early and trying to prevent terran from expoing to the nat. I do agree Seven is innovative but it stinks at the most common matchup, 1x1. In any case, apart from my map I think Twisted should win but that ain't going to happen.

So............................

What will MOTM be? Time to reach a decision guys. You want:

1) Seven
2) Frosty
3) Morris

Is that OK with the majority of the admins?
Who will post it?
NastyMarine
absolute chaos
ptar
4) Lost Soul
Lancet
Chaos? Why? People are playing the "switch your vote" game but we have 3 top maps: Seven, Frosty and Morris. We can choose MOTM among these.

So far:

Seven: definite possitional imbalance but intended for more than 2 players, innovative concept and many replays.

Frosty: good map but possible racial imbalance and only 2 replays

Morris: again good map but no replays, no idea regarding imbalances or gameplay in general.

So fellow admins, what say ye?

1) Seven
2) Frosty
3) Morris
NastyMarine
it doesnt matter. at the deadline, flo's frosty won. end of story
Lancet
OK, Nasty has spoken, how about the rest of you?
Nightmarjoo
I think Nasty's posting the motm thing so I don't care.

"it doesnt matter. at the deadline, flo's frosty won. end of story" prove it.
flothefreak
well we cant count on the votes only, because we havent made this a 100% in the past motms either (although i admit most of the decisions-against-votes-cases were quite obvious connected to fakevotes or undone maps).
however i think frosty fortress is fun to play and a counterweight to current macromaps. balance should at least be "okay", which _can_ imply certain small problems like a 45/55 balance difference in a MU, but what map doesnt have this? it is certainly no striking imbalance at last.

i'd like to see fortress on the main page of course, but i dont have a problem with a 7plyr-nice-looking FFA map, even if it has imbas in 1on1 - it isnt intended for competitive play, other than those maps like fantasy etc.
but frosty>7sins, especially with its stolen name!
Lancet
With regards to the deadline, I "un-invisibled" the competition at least 2 times since the original deadline for people to vote. If you take the competion to end at the end of the month, then yes the final order is: Frosty > Seven > Morris.

So far as I understand it (correct me if I am wrong):

Flo: Frosty but no problem with Seven
Nasty: Frosty
Testbug: Seven
Inept: Seven
Nightmarjo: Seven

As to me I share Flo's position.

The way it looks now is 1) Seven, 2) Frosty and 3) Morris.

Please other admins comment(PsychoTEMPlar, Starparty, spinesheath what say you?).

If this "trend" does not change we should post this MOTM soon.
flothefreak
yeah if the majority of skilled mappers think frosty isnt good enough or not yet balanced, then it's out of the comp for 1st place, as others maps have been equally in that situation.
NastyMarine
Guys, I wouldnt lie about the votes. And how the fuck am i going to prove it when its six days later. The 30th ended with flo's map winning. AND this was before herb, for2motion etc started voting.

Its not a matter of opinion, its truth, frosty got the most votes at the month deadline. If you guys feel Seven is better then by all means post it. But it did not receive the most votes
NastyMarine
for the record, i do not think frosty is motm quality, but like i said, it did receive the most votes at the deadline.
lnept
just voted frosty fortress 2nd as a safenet, and seven sins is the most creative thing ive seen in a while cuz I love FFA

honestly no other map on that list is remotely interesting, except for space summer which fails unfortunately due to shitty base distances and overall bad planning
lnept
Cosine
modified by lnept
Nightmarjoo
Arc-Tangent. Wait, what?
Nightmarjoo
"for the record, i do not think frosty is motm quality, but like i said, it did receive the most votes at the deadline"

Post Desert Flower while you're at it with that logic.
I don't mind what map you post, it's your post. I refrain from posting with the vote being so indecisive, even with the end of the month having gone by. If you want me to make-wordy whatever you choose to post, say so and I'll do my magic, but you post it.
Testbug
ohh there is a deadline for votes???? :S
we haven't have a deadline for votes the last 7 motms :S

if deadline was November 30th
yes, frosty fortress had lot's of votes, about 30, wile seven sins only had mine and lnept's
everybody sayd it was my shity map for fun. nighrmarjoo disliked it a lot.

now... frosty fortress has been in the mian page already. LGI posted seven sins in the FFA night post. and morris plains haven't appeared yet.

now Cucadas and For2Motion changed their votes from frosty to morris it's frosty -10 morris plains +10 lol :P morris plains is winning.
we should accept votes only from known members, and you can remove my self-vote that gives my won map + 5points
the only person who voted seven sis @ Nasty's deadline was lnept. no way to win a motm with 5 votes. but tktkvroom was sick, LGI panschk[FP] were sleeping, etc.

it you really want that deadline, it's allright, my map had only 5 points (1 vote, lnept's)

sorry but i'm in final exams, that's why i have been AFK all this time.
i wish i could win a motm at last :(
Nightmarjoo
" wish i could win a motm at last :(" yeah, who could imagine a testbug motm -.-

"and morris plains haven't appeared yet" maybe for a reason.

"we should accept votes only from known members" Cucdas and For2Motion predate you, testbug.

ptar
" wish i could win a motm at last :(" yeah, who could imagine a testbug motm -.-

LOL !!!
Lancet
OK, so 1) Seven, 2) Frosty and 3) Morris. If you guys don't mind I will try to post this MOTM this weekend (I have never done it before). If any of you wants to post it let me know.

Thanks.
Nightmarjoo
Well, Morris has the top vote now.
Lancet
Every time I post a possible order of winning maps people change their vote to alter it.If Morris was ahead and I had proposed giving it MOTM people would have changed their votes to Seven or Frosty. At best these maps are equivalent in the preference of "the people", at worst this has become a joke (and it does not help that I have the flu).

Now the way I see it we have 3 top maps to consider and several admins have voiced their preferences above:

Flo: Frosty but no problem with Seven
Lancet: Frosty but no problem with Seven
Nasty: Frosty
Testbug: Seven
Inept: Seven
Nightmarjo: Seven

So this weekend I will post MOTM in this order: 1) Seven, 2) Frosty and 3) Morris

If somebody would rather take over the job or even post a different MOTM order, fine, I will gladly leave it to them and hop in bed and be miserable. Just let me know before tomorrow morning.

Lancet
Nightmarjoo
Wait for Nasty's comment, unless he doesn't respond by tomorow night. I want his feedback.
NastyMarine
Like i said before. When the votes counted, Frosty won. I have no problem with Seven winning, but I dont approve just b.c technically, frosty won. IF everyone feels seven is better, than I have no problem with it winning.

I really dont know why you guys keep running around in circles about this. I've voiced my opinion before about this.
Testbug
i have never heared about deadline for votes xD
and at nasty's votes counted, my map only had lnept's 5 points because of his 1st choice xD
Lancet
Green light?
NastyMarine
GUYS. it is MAP of the Month. AT THE END OF THE MONTH, VOTING FINISHES. I didnt know no body understood that. Am I going crazy or is that generally what we are supposed to do? If not then thats cool, I have no problem, but someone should officially announce that. Cuz im under the impression that voting should seize after the month is done.
Lancet
Nasty, I agree that what you are saying is common sense but it has not been agreed upon before. In fact the voting for ALL competitions is about a week, even for MOTM. I had to "uninvisible" this competition 3 times for people to continue voting.

As it stands based on votes alone it is: 1) Morris, 2) Seven and 3) Frosty but if we go by this dealine you mention it would be 1) Frosty, 2) Seven and 3 Morris.

I think that either these maps are really equivalent in the preferences of people or people are engaging in some good old vote switching fun with the express purpose of making our lives (or at least mine) misserable.

: ^ (

We have already agreed in the past that, although we should try, we do not necessarily have to go with the map with the most votes. I like Morris but, unlike Frosty and Seven, it has no replays and we have no idea of what the gameplay will be like. As to Seven and Frosty, they both have their problems but just from sheer innovation and fun I would vote for Seven. Also I think the time has come for a seven player map to be MOTM.
Testbug
lol, morris plains got cucadas and for2motion votes, i don't know why they changed their votes from frosty fortess. (at leas Control and herb didn't do it)
Testbug
remember what i sayd about "potential and TSL"??
LOOKKKK!! POTENTIAL IS HERE!!!
Nightmarjoo
Morris' nat feels really awkward. For pvz, for example, the only way to safely FE is with 2 cannons, forcing later nexuses. Of course, however, z can just bring 2 drones and remove a min block and take a backdoor path into the main no problem, be able to hit the nat too with lings =/

Workers mining the nat will sometimes move to mine away the backdoor mineral block, lol.

The nat is really awkward for zvt, tvp, and pvz from what I've seen.

The expo layout isn't very good imo; the expos are also too open. Short distances and direct paths will probably turn out the map to be p>t, p>z, t>z. The middle is definitely not tight at all, so I think pushing will be very difficult tvp, combined with the easy protoss gas, makes this map a p map imo.
The map's expo layout reminds me of tau cross, but the map lacks the long distances and indirect paths of tau, the features which helped balance tau. Also in tau, the 3rd gas had a bridge by it, which allowed t and z to defend their 3rd base from that direction well, but there is no such thing in this map.

The backdoor is a lot of what makes imo the nat awkward and difficult to shape, but I think it's necessary for mobility and pathing's sake in the map, atleast with this nat setup. I think the map could benefit from a more blitzx style nat, though it can be on highground still.

I understand the min only and its placement in the expo layout, but it feels kind of silly and useless.
NastyMarine
that all just seems like a personal opinion and not matter of fact. I'm not sure of the natural mineral line and stray workers. I'd have to see that.
Nightmarjoo
lol you're telling me my base theory crafting is wrong, and you haven't played the map long enough to have your workers stray to the backdoor minerals? -_-
This is why I don't like the map, you've been really lazy about actually thinking about the map -.- No reason to put effort into something the map's own author won't.
But, whatever! Who cares. No reason to turn this into another flame fest, as I'm sure you're wont, as always -.-
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Allstar4 voted (2)Morris Plains as 1. choice
Allstar4 voted (2)Palace of Mists v1.2 as 2. choice
Allstar4 voted (2)Frosty Fortress as 3. choice
Alter.Ego voted (7)Seven Sins as 1. choice
Alter.Ego voted (2)Morris Plains as 2. choice
Alter.Ego voted (2)Lost Soul as 3. choice
Control voted (2)Frosty Fortress as 1. choice
Control voted (2)Lost Soul as 2. choice
Control voted (2)Twisted Passion 1.2 as 3. choice
Crackling voted (7)Seven Sins as 1. choice
Crackling voted (2)Bonecrusher as 2. choice
Crackling voted (2)Morris Plains as 3. choice
Cucdas voted (2)Morris Plains as 1. choice
Cucdas voted (2)Lost Soul as 2. choice
Cucdas voted (2)Bonecrusher as 3. choice
flothefreak voted (2)Morris Plains as 1. choice
flothefreak voted (2)Frosty Fortress as 2. choice
flothefreak voted (2)DoingTheDying 2.0 as 3. choice
For2Motion voted (2)Morris Plains as 1. choice
For2Motion voted (4)Space Summer as 2. choice
For2Motion voted (2)Lost Soul as 3. choice
herb voted (2)Frosty Fortress as 1. choice
herb voted (2)Bonecrusher as 2. choice
herb voted (2)Twisted Passion 1.2 as 3. choice
Lancet voted (2)Twisted Passion 1.2 as 1. choice
Lancet voted (2)Morris Plains as 2. choice
Lancet voted (4)Space Summer as 3. choice
LGI voted (7)Seven Sins as 1. choice
LGI voted (2)Lost Soul as 2. choice
LGI voted (2)SnakeVine1.5 as 3. choice
lnept voted (7)Seven Sins as 1. choice
lnept voted (2)Frosty Fortress as 2. choice
lnept voted (4)Space Summer as 3. choice
NastyMarine voted (2)Bonecrusher as 1. choice
NastyMarine voted (2)SnakeVine1.5 as 2. choice
NastyMarine voted (2)Morris Plains as 3. choice
Nightmarjoo voted (7)Seven Sins as 1. choice
Nightmarjoo voted (2)Twisted Passion 1.2 as 2. choice
Nightmarjoo voted (4)Grnaki Prime as 3. choice
panschk[FP] voted (2)Frosty Fortress as 1. choice
panschk[FP] voted (7)Seven Sins as 2. choice
panschk[FP] voted (4)Space Summer as 3. choice
potential voted (2)Lost Soul as 1. choice
potential voted (2)Morris Plains as 2. choice
potential voted (2)Frosty Fortress as 3. choice
ptar voted (2)Morris Plains as 2. choice
ptar voted (4)Space Summer as 3. choice
SAURUS voted (2)Morris Plains as 1. choice
SAURUS voted (4)Airbag as 2. choice
SAURUS voted (2)SnakeVine1.5 as 3. choice
Testbug voted (7)Seven Sins as 1. choice
Testbug voted (2)Frosty Fortress as 2. choice
Testbug voted (4)Space Summer as 3. choice
tktkvroom voted (7)Seven Sins as 1. choice
tktkvroom voted (2)Lost Soul as 2. choice
tktkvroom voted (2)Morris Plains as 3. choice
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